Finance Committee on June 1st, 2021

Evidence of meeting #52 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clauses.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-30

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Erin O'Brien Director General, Financial Services Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Justin Brown Acting Director General, Financial Crimes Governance and Operations, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Gabriel Ngo Senior Advisor, Financial Crimes Governance and Operations, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Julie Trepanier Director, Payments Policy, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Richard Bilodeau Director General, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Kathleen Wrye Acting Director, Pensions Policy, Financial Crimes and Security Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Neil Mackinnon Senior Advisor, Financial Crimes Governance and Operations, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Garima Dwivedi Director General, Indigenous Institutions and Governance Modernization, Resolution and Partnerships, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs

Leane Walsh Director, Fiscal Policy and Investment Readiness, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs

Suzanne Kennedy Acting Director General, Federal-Provincial Relations Division, Federal-Provincial Relations and Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Omar Rajabali Director General, Social Policy Division, Federal-Provincial Relations and Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Eric Malara Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada

Samuel Millar Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance

Andre Arbour Acting Director General, Telecommunications and Internet Policy Branch, Department of Industry

Steve Watton Manager, Policy, Canada Small Business Financing Program, Department of Industry

Yannick Mondy Director, Trade and Tariff Policy, International Trade Policy Division, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance

Lorraine Pelot Director General, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Barbara Moran Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program - Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

David Charter Director, Workplace Information and Research Division, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoit Cadieux Director, Special Benefits, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Toby Hoffmann Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Anna Dekker Acting Senior Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Stephen Scott Director General, Strategy and Performance, National Research Council of Canada

Frances McCormick Executive Director, Integrated Labour System, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Nina Damsbaek Director, Policy and Research, Canada Student Loans Program, Learning Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Clerk of the Committee Mr. Alexandre Roger

Christopher Duschenes Director General, Economic Policy Development, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indigenous Services

Kristen Underwood Director General, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Kevin Wagdin Director, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

8:30 p.m.

Director, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Kevin Wagdin

I can't speak to how many have incomes at or below the poverty line. I do know that it's about 85% of seniors who have incomes below $50,000 a year, so the vast majority are below that figure, as I say, and lower than that.

Let me just see if I can find the distribution between the 65 and 75-plus folks here.

For our OAS clientele, the split is virtually even in the sense that we have about 6.5 million total OAS pensioners, and we believe that with the increase for 75-plus we would, in the first year, be able to assist about 3.3 million of them.

8:30 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Thank you.

8:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I have Mr. Kelly next and Ms. Jansen.

June 1st, 2021 / 8:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

On the answer to Ms. Jansen's question, any senior who lives to age 75, or an older age than that, would always be more vulnerable to outliving their savings, that just flows from the actual point of living that long. There's nothing new in this argument. I don't understand that answer as a reason why now this was a sudden policy consideration.

The trend of people living longer means that this will apply to more people, but any people who lived to 75 historically would have faced the same issues. I still don't really understand the rationale around this. Maybe to Tamara's point or others', supporting seniors when they were younger would help them to not outlive their savings and so would longer workforce participation of seniors, which is also something that I think we're going to see going ahead. Seniors who live longer would be more likely....

I don't quite understand the rationale again on this. Perhaps it's a political question, so I'm sorry to get into that right at the very end.

8:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Political or not, Ms. Underwood, I'm sorry, and I'm sorry, committee members. We are going to have to adjourn. We are getting some push-back, and we were supposed to have had a hard stop five minutes ago.

With that, we will continue the clause-by-clause on Thursday.

Thank you, Ms. Underwood and Mr. Wagdin, and thank you to all the witnesses who are in the room. Thank you for your help and assistance tonight. It's very valuable to the committee.

Thanks again to the interpreters for all their efforts. I know this is adding stress to their lives; there's no question about that.

With that, the meeting is adjourned.