Finance Committee on June 1st, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are there any further questions?

(Clause 194 agreed to on division)

(On clause 195)

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there further explanation on clause 195, Ms. Kennedy?

[Suzanne Kennedy]

Yes. This clause would allow the Governor in Council to make regulations with respect to the information that must be prepared and submitted by the chief statistician of Canada for the purposes of fiscal stabilization payments.

There's one more subclause, which would also allow the Governor in Council to make regulations with respect to the details of the determination of personal and corporate income taxes, as was referred to in clause 194.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

All right.

(Clause 195 agreed to on division)

(On clause 196)

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. Kennedy.

[Suzanne Kennedy]

This clause would specify that all technical changes—that is to say, all the changes with the exception of the higher cap—do not apply to claims for fiscal years 2019-20 and 2020-21. In other words, they would apply for fiscal years from 2021-22 and onward, but the higher cap would apply right away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I have just a couple of questions.

I had understood that the Province of Alberta was asking for a cap of $170 per capita. Is that correct, or am I wrong?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Pat is shaking his head.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I think they were asking for the cap to be removed.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

That's correct; they wanted to have it removed completely, but as a fallback they were talking about a cap of $170, were they not?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Do you know, Ms. Kennedy?

[Suzanne Kennedy]

I know that they had asked to have it removed completely.

Perhaps I could clarify that this legislation would work out to a cap of about $170 per capita for the year 2020-21.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Okay. Maybe that's where the misunderstanding is.

Could you explain in a little more detail what those technical changes entail that will be applied from the year 2021-22?

[Suzanne Kennedy]

These are the other changes I mentioned from clause 194, such as having tax point transfers eligible for fiscal stabilization and changing the measure of personal and corporate income tax revenues so that it would be based on assessments completed in the fall of a calendar year rather than on the basis of the tax years to which those assessments apply.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

(Clause 196 agreed to on division)

(On clause 197)

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We will turn now to division 12, which deals with the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act (Additional Health Payments).

Following clause 197, we will go to proposed amendment BQ-5.

Go ahead, Ms. Kennedy.

[Suzanne Kennedy]

This clause amends the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act to specify that the Minister of Finance may make an additional cash payment equivalent to $4 billion to the provinces and territories through the Canada health transfer. It would be allocated on an equal per capita basis, and the clause sets out the exact amount for every province and territory.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

For anybody who wants to turn to the bill, those payments are set out on pages 250 and 251.

Are there questions on clause 197?

(Clause 197 agreed to on division)

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We're turning, then, to a proposed amendment for a new clause 197.1.

Mr. Ste-Marie, if you want to explain your amendment, we'll have the chair's ruling.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

When we look at the work of the parliamentary budget officer and the Conference Board, we realize that, despite the size of the current deficit in Ottawa, the public finances of the provinces are hardly sustainable. To restore balance to the situation, a major increase in funding for the health care system is required. This is the request of the Council of the Federation, so of all the provinces.

The Prime Minister said that he supported the idea, but wanted to take action only after the pandemic. Amendment BQ-5 seeks to ensure that work related to the meeting on the Canada health transfer, to which the Minister of Finance is inviting representatives of all the provinces no later than August 1, 2021, be started before that date.

We're experiencing a health crisis. The entire health care system is in crisis. We believe that better funding is urgently needed and must be provided now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

All right. I will give a ruling on this. I see that Mr. Julian wants in too.

The amendment requires the Minister of Finance to invite the representatives of all of the provinces to a meeting on the Canada health transfer no later than August 1, 2021. Since the scope of this division is related only to possible additional cash payments to the provinces, the amendment is inadmissible, as it goes beyond the scope of the bill, as described on page 772 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition. I am ruling the amendment out of order.

Mr. Julian and Mr. Ste-Marie, we'll have a quick discussion on this, and then we'll have to either accept my ruling or not.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'll give the floor to Mr. Ste-Marie first, since it's his amendment. I can speak afterwards.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Chair, I just want to make a comment. I thought that you would rule the amendment in order because the government would have already called the election. I find the arguments surprising. However, at this point, I won't challenge your ruling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It has to do with rules and procedure, Mr. Ste-Marie.

Mr. Julian.