Evidence of meeting #56 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was interference.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Commissioner, has that information—the contents of the allegations contained in the Globe and Mail report—been shared with Elections Canada, with your office?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
If I understand the question correctly, I am being asked if I share information I receive about complaints made to me with Elections Canada. The answer is no. All information I receive is considered confidential. I act independently.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Look, journalists have reviewed CSIS documents that indicate there was interference in the 2019 and 2021 elections. Why does Elections Canada not have that information? If journalists have that information, why don't you?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
Is the question directed at me?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
That is a question to ask the sources of the journalists.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Sir, are you saying to me that CSIS has not provided Elections Canada with any information about interference in the 2019 and 2021 elections and that you don't have any information?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
We have been working with security agencies, and we understand the security environment. There are known risks and known threats regarding foreign interference. This is not news, but in terms of specific elements, factual elements, they have not shared them with me, as I said.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Any matters that relate to compliance with rules in the Canada Elections Act—
Conservative
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
We have memoranda of understanding with CSIS that frame the sharing of information and assistance when required. We have the same kind of protocols with the RCMP. Again, I would tell you that all of that is covered by confidentiality, as far as I'm concerned.
Conservative
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you for that exchange.
As a reminder, if there are two people speaking on the mike at the same time, the interpreters have to pick a language. There are many people, I'm sure, who are interested in this, so I would be mindful of making sure that one person is speaking at a time.
Ms. Sahota, you have up to six minutes.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Going off the interaction just now, I want to ask the Chief Electoral Officer and the commissioner whether what they can say today in their testimony is any different from what they would be able to review at a public inquiry.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
As far as I'm concerned, for one or the other, it's the same thing.
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
It's the same thing for me.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
I'm going to move on to the Canada Elections Act. Some changes were made previously by the current government through Bill C-76. There were measures introduced in legislation to keep out foreign influence, including through money, in our elections.
I'll start with Mr. Perrault. I'm wondering if you could explain a bit about what changes were implemented by the current government.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
The main rule that I can speak to is related to what is called “undue influence by foreigners” in the act. That relates to a prohibition of incurring any expense during the election period to promote or oppose a candidate or a party. There are exceptions for a personal opinion or for media, for example. This is a restriction that applies only during the election period, and in my recommendation to Parliament, I suggested that it be extended beyond that period.
There was also a significant review of the third party funding regime. That was not specifically aimed at foreign interference, but there are aspects of the regime that do target that. I have also made some recommendations to Parliament there to reinforce rules on how third parties may use their own funds for regulated activities, given how this could allow foreign funding to penetrate our system. I have made some recommendations in that regard.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
Were additional powers provided to the commissioner through that piece of legislation, through the Canada Elections Act, implemented by the current government?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
Yes, administrative powers, more specifically administrative monetary penalties, were added to the Canada Elections Act. It's a good start. That said, I have been asked before if any improvements could be made. It's important to note that right now I have to use criminal powers to get the job done. So specific administrative powers are missing.
It is certainly counterintuitive to talk about administrative monetary penalties when foreign interference is involved, but that is already in the act. What's missing are the powers of preservation and disclosure of evidence, as well as the power to compel someone to testify and the power to compel someone to produce documents, among other things.
In addition, current sanctions are grossly inadequate. For example, with respect to businesses, the cap is $5,000. They see it as the cost of doing business in some circumstances.
Therefore, to take full advantage of the advances made in the past in this area, it would be important to add powers and also increase the penalty amounts.
Liberal
Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON
Thank you. I think that is something this committee can definitely recommend doing, since we are all interested in making sure that the integrity of our elections is kept strong.
You mentioned a little while ago a mechanism. A memorandum of understanding is perhaps what you had referred to, and that is in place for Elections Canada to receive information. You mentioned just now that you have to use criminal powers to investigate any further, lay charges or give penalties. You said that you have a relationship with CSIS for this memorandum of understanding and with the RCMP. Can you elaborate a bit on how that co-operation works?