Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 2nd, 2023

[Stéphane Perrault]

The minutes of the meetings are on our website and the membership is public, so there's no confidential information. I will provide that to the chair.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Will you provide a detailed list to this committee?

[Stéphane Perrault]

I will do that, Madam Chair.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Although you indicated that you did not meet with the Prime Minister or anyone at the PMO, will you go back and verify that as well?

[Stéphane Perrault]

That will not be difficult. I've never met them.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Perrault, have you received any reports from the Security and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task Force?

[Stéphane Perrault]

I have not received any reports of specific cases. It should be noted that my mandate is really related to the administration of the voting process. Therefore, there were no problems that prevented electoral events from taking place.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Yesterday, I was surprised to learn that Elections Canada was not part of that task force to protect our elections. The task force does not report to you, but reports to a committee that determines whether or not information should be made public. If I understand correctly, your role is limited to the information that is provided to you.

[Stéphane Perrault]

One of the things we do in preparation for elections is meet with the various partners to understand everyone's roles and responsibilities to ensure that communication mechanisms are in place. That way, if issues arise, we know where the information needs to go, depending on the nature of the issue. Communication mechanisms are well established.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I understand.

[Stéphane Perrault]

We are not part of that task force, but that does not mean that we are outside its purview.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

As you know better than anyone, Mr. Perrault, election periods are very short. When you know about something that happens at the beginning of an election, and you follow a process, and the results come in afterwards, it's too late for anyone to take action.

[Stéphane Perrault]

It will also depend on the quality of the information, as there is a wide range between facts and rumours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Simard and Mr. Perrault, I want to thank you, notwithstanding some of the unfortunate comments that have been shared around the table today, for the incredible work that you and Elections Canada do. The reality of the situation is that we live in one of the freest and most open democracies in the world. That's as a result, not of partisan members of Parliament or politicians, but of the incredible work that you do. Therefore, in any capacity that I can, I apologize for some of the comments that have been expressed today, and I thank you for the incredible work that you do.

I just want to recap so that I fully understand this. Please feel free to answer with just yes or no if I have it correctly.

CSIS will receive complaints. CSIS will assess those and, if required, if it feels it's necessary, then turn it over to the commissioner to further investigate and take action on. Is that correct?

[Caroline Simard]

CSIS officials will be appearing before the committee later today, when you can ask them about the work that CSIS does.

My office receives thousands of complaints a year, and foreign interference accounts for a very small portion of those complaints. We receive complaints directly or they come to us from our partners.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I will ask CSIS that question too.

Just to confirm.... It would be reasonably acceptable to assume that CSIS might get some information that it doesn't end up turning over to you, because it doesn't deem it necessary to go to you. Is that correct? CSIS must receive a lot of information. Maybe that's a hypothetical and you would rather not answer it—I understand.

[Caroline Simard]

I don't know the unknown.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Fair enough.

Just to go back to Mr. Cooper's question in the first round.... CSIS did not provide any information regarding this global report to Elections Canada, to you, Commissioner.

[Caroline Simard]

As I explained, I cannot disclose this information for good legal reasons. The information is confidential.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you.

Bill C-76, which came about in 2018, significantly increased the powers of Elections Canada to look into and investigate foreign interference. Is that correct?

[Caroline Simard]

I'll correct what you're saying. Elections Canada does not have these powers, but rather the Commissioner of Canada Elections does. As has already been mentioned, the power to compel testimony now exists. That was added administratively.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Would you say that it's working? Has it improved the ability of the commissioner of Canada elections to do the work?

[Caroline Simard]

Any improvement is welcome. Again, it would make our job easier in the future if we had these administrative powers as a complement. All means must be considered to address such serious threats.