Official Languages Committee on Oct. 31st, 2017

[Marc Hamel]

Absolutely.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Allow me to respond briefly.

You should know that, pursuant to a standard issued by the federal government, in all documents, the French must precede the English in the French version, and the English must precede the French in the English version. This is why the language questions are the only census questions in which the order of the responses is reversed.

This standard has been in force since the early 2000s. Consequently, this is not the first census for which we have proceeded in this way. The 2016 census was the first and only one in which we encountered this kind of problem.

We also used different methods—

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Were you forced to do something too quickly and without the necessary resources?

[Marc Hamel]

No.

Here is the situation. The response database that we receive reflects all the changes we have had to make to ensure that incomplete responses are coded so that we have a complete database. We are provided with this database, which contains the answers that Canadians have provided. Consequently, the problem was clear; it underlay the system. However, no one saw it at the time.

We validated that information using outside sources. We made linguistic projections based on previous trends, and nothing seemed inconsistent at the provincial level. It was really after abnormal growth was reported to us in certain Quebec municipalities that we tried to understand where the error had originated. That is when we took the necessary measures.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You realized there was a problem because that kind of growth in the anglophone population in certain municipalities was not very likely.

[Marc Hamel]

Correct.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Could the same problem have occurred in the francophone population? Could it be that that population was not properly enumerated?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

As my colleague mentioned, from the moment the error was noted until the new data were released, many Statistics Canada employees worked hard to ensure the error did not affect other questionnaires elsewhere in the country. Canada has a population of 36 million inhabitants. We went over the processes with a fine-tooth comb to ensure the error had not occurred elsewhere. That was when we realized that between 2,500 and 3,000 people outside Quebec had been affected by the error.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Ms. Lapointe.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to get this straight.

According to the figures you obtained, the anglophone population increased by 164% in Rimouski, 115% in Saguenay, and 110% in Drummondville, not to mention Sudbury and Ottawa. Those are not normal figures, but you nevertheless decided to publish them. Is that correct?

You said that, when you saw those figures, you thought they made no sense and that something abnormal had occurred. Why then were they published? If those figures were abnormal, they should not have been released.

What I understand from this matter is that, when the figures were published, Canadian citizens, including Mr. Normand, holder of the research chair in Canadian francophonie and public policies, and Ms. Mainville, of the University of Ottawa, realized that something was not right. They then called you, and that is when you changed those figures. Is that not correct?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Actually, we did not change the figures.

You must also understand that a major change occurred in 2011. We had to use a new instrument. You may have realized that. We therefore notified people that they should exercise caution in drawing historical comparisons with data from previous censuses, those from 2006 to 2011. We also validated the data obtained in 2011 by comparing it with those from previous censuses.

You must understand that a number of factors may influence results. You mentioned a 150% increase in the anglophone population. If there are 125 people in a municipality, and that number rises to 250, that is obviously a substantial increase. It may be attributable to all kinds of factors in some cases. Consequently, we must try to analyze each of the factors that may have influenced the figures. It is not just a matter of saying that we have noted this anomaly but have decided to release the figures anyway, thinking that someone will notice. What—

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Corbeil, I apologize for interrupting, but my speaking time is limited and the clock is ticking. I get the general idea.

Who is allowed to attend your closed information sessions when the information is released so they can take a look at it all?

[Marc Hamel]

Those closed meetings are in fact not held for the purpose of validating information. They are meetings where certain individuals can obtain the information before others. They are held on the day the data are released, and certain individuals have access to the findings.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I understand. I mention this because I know that QCGN and the FCFA do not have access to those closed meetings, and I wonder whether that should be reviewed.

There is another point. As we have seen, the system you use to validate the figures before releasing them failed in this specific case. I am not speaking generally but rather in this specific case. What steps would you take to prevent this kind of error from reoccurring in the data validation process?

After determining that an error had occurred, you had a good system that worked well. Several steps were followed, including verification, validation, analysis, cross-checking, and expert panel review.

Are the same steps taken in normal circumstances?

What happened in this specific case? Ultimately, why did your validation process not work in this specific case?

[Marc Hamel]

In normal circumstances, checks are made at every stage, whether it be the computer systems, the findings, or the production. There are a host of steps, and we usually verify them systematically.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Does an expert panel check your data in various fields? In this case, involving official languages, does an expert panel check the data before they are made public?

[Marc Hamel]

For most of the data, no, that has not previously been done. I must say we have a lot of expertise in many of those fields, and the census has not greatly changed over time. We have a great deal of expertise on the various changes in the population from one census to the next, including the language expertise of Mr. Corbeil and his team.

However, we learned a great deal from this exercise, working with an expert panel that was able to examine the data. This is a practice we want to adopt so we can progress: by that I mean calling on people in the field, in specialized fields, so they can give us their interpretation of the results early enough for us to make changes if something abnormal is detected.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

So this is a new procedure that you are introducing to ensure these kinds of findings are not released before being more thoroughly validated by an expert panel, for example.

[Marc Hamel]

Precisely.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Is this somewhat modified validation method that you are going to adopt in the public domain? Can you send us details on it? What is public and what is not? Are there any aspects that we can access as a committee?

[Marc Hamel]

In our last releases, we have called on some of our federal partners, such as departments that have expertise in specific fields. For example, on the housing data we released on October 25, we worked with the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, examining the data we were about to release and determining whether they carried a certain credibility with regard to the housing stock and the various associated parameters. We had—

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Pardon me for interrupting, but ultimately what I want to know is whether you can send the committee the information on your new findings validation method.

[Marc Hamel]

Yes, we can do that.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

We can definitely send you a description of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

You may forward it all to the clerk, and we will distribute it to all committee members.

Thank you, Mr. Choquette.