Evidence of meeting #28 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Mr. Vaillancourt, how do you think relations are at present...
12:45 p.m.
Member of the Executive Committee, President of the Commission on Fiscality and Local Finances and Mayor of the City of Laval, Union of Quebec Municipalities
I think they are very good.
12:45 p.m.
Bernard Généreux Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, CPC
...between the federal government and, for example, all of the municipalities in Canada and Quebec, obviously?
12:45 p.m.
Member of the Executive Committee, President of the Commission on Fiscality and Local Finances and Mayor of the City of Laval, Union of Quebec Municipalities
First, I would like to tell you that Canada's Economic Action Plan has been a very good thing for municipalities. I said that last year, when I AME here. I have repeated it in several forums. It was the right decision to make. So bravo and congratulations for that.
Last year, I told you I understood that there had to be a deadline right away, to make sure that everyone clearly understands there is an end and they have to reach the finish line.
This morning, I came here to tell you that in my opinion, we need some flexibility. Mr. Strahl, with whom I have met, seemed to agree. We need to find a solution that is fair and is ultimately acceptable to everyone.
Mr. Généreux, while the program has worked very well in 97% of cases, the ones who have been able to achieve that could not say today that they are dissatisfied. For example, in the case of all the projects carried out where I come from and for which the requirements have been met, I am completely happy.
For some $30 or maybe $40 million, why not find the flexibility needed so as not to have to pay that $30 or $40 million out of the municipal pocket?
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
I don't know whether you have had an opportunity to see debates in the House in recent years, but the government has always talked about being fair and flexible.
If you had been told no, or if they had said no in the House, that it's March 31 and that's it, that it was finished and they wouldn't talk about it any further, what would you have understood? That it meant no?
12:50 p.m.
Member of the Executive Committee, President of the Commission on Fiscality and Local Finances and Mayor of the City of Laval, Union of Quebec Municipalities
Mr. Généreux, if I had felt that there was no openness on the part of the government, I would not have come here to the parliamentary committee...
12:50 p.m.
Member of the Executive Committee, President of the Commission on Fiscality and Local Finances and Mayor of the City of Laval, Union of Quebec Municipalities
... and I would probably have spoken out against the government's attitudes in other forums.
The reason I am here is that I recognize that there is a degree of openness and I am appealing to all members to exhibit the flexibility that is needed and help us not to be penalized. That's all.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Mr. Chair, if I may, I would like to talk to my doppelgänger about the possibility of an incredible disaster next spring if the projects are not completed. Mr. Guimond is working at talking about a disaster.
What would have been much more disastrous for Quebec and for Canada, particularly for Quebec, in the case that concerns us, is for all of the opposition parties to have done what the Bloc Québécois did and vote against the measures in the Economic Action Plan. That would have been disastrous for Quebec.
12:50 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh.
12:50 p.m.
A voice
If he wants to play politics...
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Order, please. I'm just waiting for the translation.
Monsieur Guimond, on a point of order.
12:50 p.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
I'm not the one speaking, but if he is asking Mr. Généreux a question, he should ask it. This is the first time he has taken part in this committee. It has always functioned well. I am committed to this continuing to be the case in future. But if pointless comments like Mr. Généreux's continue to be made, we are going to have to alter our approach, which is based on harmony.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Mr. Chair, my objective...
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Is it on the same point of order? No? Then I would just suggest that we direct our questions directly to our witnesses, please.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Mr. Chair, in terms of honouring the municipalities' commitments, I would like to ask Mr. Généreux, who is a mayor at the present time, a very simple question. I was myself a mayor for four years. When tenders are invited, you have to set a deadline, usually at about 2:00 p.m., to give everyone time to get there. You set a very precise date and time to make sure that people have an equal opportunity to participate. The people who choose to submit an offer of services to a municipality have to abide by the date.
Mr. Généreux, when the people go past the date, they come in two minutes or even one minute after the time set, what happens?
12:50 p.m.
Bernard Généreux President, Fédération Québécoise des Municipalités
It's too late. The rule says that deadlines for submitting offers of service... But that isn't what we're talking about here. I would like to ask you a specific question and get a specific answer.
They're saying they are looking for a solution, but I have the impression they are not going to find one, that the deadlines are not going to be met and that is going to leave situations like the one in Saint-Léonard d'Aston out in the cold, where we're talking about $4 million but no bidder, since everyone is carrying out projects at the same time. We are going to leave situations like the one in Roberval out in the cold, where the amount in issue is $1 million, but there is no bidder; the one in East Angus, where $675,000 in funding was promised but hasn't arrived. In Martinville, where there also is no bidder, and we're talking about $800,000. So this is a program that probably has bad points equal to its good points.
From the perspective of finding a fair solution, are you prepared to commit yourself to allowing the money that has been authorized to be spent, even if it meant not meeting the deadline? I think that's a specific question.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Mr. Chair, my role is not the same as my colleague Mr. Généreux's, who was the mayor of La Pocatière. He is trying to say that the government has done a good job, but the goal is to find a solution. The fact is that we have in front of us a government that has committed certain moneys. It took time for the agreements to be signed, and some municipalities are facing problems because the Conservative government does not understand the situation on the ground at present.
We don't think this is complicated. If the money was committed and the agreements signed too late, because the money has already been spent, what is the problem in allowing extra time, for example six months, to make sure that people's quality of life is taken directly into account? That is the real question. Nobody will be asking whether you voted for the Conservatives in the last election or whether you're a nice person. They want to know whether it's possible to find a solution.
The plan was a good one. In fact, the infrastructure programs were so good that they were originated by the Liberal Party in 1993. A journalist is present, so as long as we're doing the recovery, we could record clips and make the news. But that is not our objective today. We want to find a solution without playing politics, to contribute to people's quality of life.
Mr. Vaillancourt and Mr. Généreux, what do you think?
12:55 p.m.
Member of the Executive Committee, President of the Commission on Fiscality and Local Finances and Mayor of the City of Laval, Union of Quebec Municipalities
You can do it, as parliamentarians. You need to persuade the government to allow us a little flexibility in assigning us a deadline. That's the only thing we're asking for. Simply to allow the people who signed up for the program in good faith and have experienced delays that are not necessarily their fault to qualify, without being forced to bear a larger share than other municipal taxpayers for the economic recovery plan.
I am speaking to all of the parliamentarians around this table. You have to understand that 84% of all municipal debt in Canada is owed by Quebec municipalities. Every dollar in subsidies that they lose and have to absorb themselves will be a very high penalty.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
Thank you.
Monsieur Guimond, have you any more comments?
We have about two minutes left for each party.
Monsieur Gaudet.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
I would have liked Mr. Généreux to answer the other Mr. Généreux, but one of them isn't here. So I have no questions to ask.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
I have a question.
On PRECO, the program you alluded to, the answer I got to the questions I put to both Mr. Strahl and Mr. Paradis was that it was the Government of Quebec that had imposed the December 31 deadline, and it was accepted.
Are you aware of that situation? Also, do you think the municipalities should be penalized because of that deadline?
12:55 p.m.
Member of the Executive Committee, President of the Commission on Fiscality and Local Finances and Mayor of the City of Laval, Union of Quebec Municipalities
No. I have been informed that the date was agreed to by the Government of Quebec. However, I have to tell you that since then, the Government of Quebec and the other parties in the National Assembly have changed their minds and supported a resolution asking for the deadlines to be extended. So in spite of that initial intention, one of the seems to have changed its original position, since it agreed to a resolution in the National Assembly calling for an extension of the deadlines.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC
You are in touch with the Minister of Municipal Affairs, Regions and Land Occupancy of Quebec or with members of his office, or even with the office of Premier Charest. To your knowledge, is the Government of Quebec making efforts to ensure that the municipalities' voice is heard in Ottawa?