Transport Committee on June 17th, 2021

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have a question for Mr. Bellefleur.

You cited in your opening remarks the increased number of rail accidents. Industry representatives at our committee have said that the number of accidents per kilometre travelled by train has actually gone down.

From the perspective of a community that has been profoundly affected by a rail disaster, does this claim give you any comfort?

[Robert Bellefleur]

The industry may well have its version of the facts and its arguments, but I'm talking about the report by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, TSB, which confirms that there has been a 42% increase in the number of accidents in the past 10 years. It's not me saying it, it's an independent agency that's quite serious and well informed.

Certainly, a change in volume can also lead to more or fewer accidents, depending on the year, but the fact remains that before 2012, we didn't transport oil and gas on the railways. There were no block trains. They were hauling freight and they only had a few tank cars with gasoline, oil and sulfuric acid. So when they had a derailment, it was much less harmful. Today, it's the advent of these infamous block trains that is a big problem.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Bellefleur, I would like to read a sentence from the Auditor General's report on her recent follow-up audit on rail safety. Rather, it's from her presentation on April 13 at the transport committee. The Auditor General said:

Overall, we found that eight years later, the department had yet to fully address our recommendations and that, in fact, there was still much to do to improve the oversight of rail safety in Canada.

How does hearing that make you feel?

[Robert Bellefleur]

For the people of Lac‑Mégantic, it really feels like a slap in the face. They experienced one of the worst tragedies and nothing has really changed. What the Auditor General is telling us, and she confirms it in her latest report, is that the incident in Lac‑Mégantic could happen again somewhere else. The conditions that led to it are still in place.

That's why, on July 6, 2021, we're holding a demonstration in Lac‑Mégantic on the railroad tracks to show that we are against oil being transported through our town again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Bellefleur. Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

We're now going to move on to the Conservative Party.

Mr. Kram, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for Mr. McPherson of the Teamsters union.

Earlier, Mr. McPherson, you mentioned that you had some plans about alleviating the problem of blocked crossings at the Ring Road in Regina. I was wondering if you would be willing to elaborate on these plans, because I'm sure that's one problem people in Regina would love to have addressed.

[Chad McPherson]

Thank you, Mr. Kram, for the opportunity to speak to it.

It is so simple it's almost laughable. What happens when that train stops and is occupying the Ring Road and all of those other crossings that we're talking about is that a series of about four manual hand-operated switches need to be aligned. Depending on where they rode that train through, if they're aligned in advance, that train can keep rolling through. Now the speed through that territory is about 10 miles an hour. When you have a train two miles long, it is going to occupy that, but at least it's moving. When it stops, that's when the dangers occur, because we have people crawling through with the pedestrian crossings there.

The fix to that problem in itself is simple and I've proposed this. I'm a health and safety representative and a co-chair for the Sask south health and safety committee; I've proposed this on numerous occasions and have yet to see it implemented.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. McPherson, you presented these plans to whom: the city of Regina, the railway companies, or who was it?

[Chad McPherson]

I presented the solution to our local management and the superintendent, the general manager of the division, and it was agreed upon. We operate on a bulletin. An information bulletin would be released saying how we're going to operate through that territory. That has yet to happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Just for clarification, Mr. McPherson, do you mean the superintendent of CN Rail?

[Chad McPherson]

For CP Rail.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

CP Rail. Okay, thank you.

Mr. Kram.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you.

Mr. McPherson, you identified four broad areas of concern that the Teamsters have: blocked crossings, emergency response procedures, new hires and rest periods. I was wondering if you could tell the committee which one of these issues is your greatest concern and why.

[Chad McPherson]

The Teamsters' biggest concern has always been fatigue. As I mentioned earlier, the inaccuracies of train lineups are one of the greatest causes of rail fatigue. As I alluded to earlier, many are faced with a decision to go to work tired, which is heavily influenced by fear of reprisal from the employer. Mandatory eight-hour broadcast of crew starts is going to help. We need more information so that we can be better prepared to go to work. The employer needs to cease disciplinary action. We are governed by.... We have to be fit and rested prior to.... We work in a safety critical position. When we make mistakes, they're not paper cuts. We don't hit the backspace. We see major tragedies and major incidents happen. These often result in fatalities, and fatigue is a major component in that.

Going back to Lac-Mégantic, that happened at approximately two in the morning. If you ask me, I would question fatigue.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Berthold, go ahead.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Chair, the interpreter is saying that he's having a lot of trouble interpreting Mr. McPherson because of interference in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Berthold.

Mr. McPherson, if you could get that mike a bit closer to your mouth, we'll see if that helps.

[Chad McPherson]

Okay. I received a phone call from tech support about the boom. Maybe it's not working if it's picking up the hardware microphone on the laptop. I'll just try to slow down.

Fatigue in the railway is a major component of train incidents and personal injuries. The new proposed duty-to-rest periods are a major improvement on that fatigue, but the railway carriers need to address the train lineups. When I'm going to go to work, I need to know well in advance how much time I have to prepare for it. Right now, as it stands, if I work at midnight, I'll be phoned at 22:00 hours, or 10 p.m., to report to work, so I have two hours' notice before I need to report to work.

Prior to that, there's a train lineup I can follow that's very inconsistent and often inaccurate. As I alluded to previously, there's a train that's ready to go at 5 p.m. and I'm waiting and primed to be rested for that, because when I report to work I could be working for a maximum of 12 hours. If that suddenly disappears and I'm going to work at midnight for the next train, now I've been awake and rested to go since 5 p.m. and I could be awake for an additional 12 hours.

Fatigue science has proven that 17 hours of wakefulness is equivalent to a .02 blood alcohol content and it increases exponentially after that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. McPherson and Mr. Kram.

We're now going to move on the Liberal Party.

Ms. Martinez Ferrada, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Campbell.

Recently, in the newspaper The Interior News, you said the following:

The safety of your communities is of grave concern to me, as it took eight years for Transport Canada to act on any of the recommendations that came out of a review of the Lac-Mégantic disaster, and dangerous conditions and rail cars still operate.

Do you wish to correct that statement, in which you claim that Transport Canada took no action in eight years?

[Bruce Campbell]

I don't know what the publication is that quoted me, but what I've said already is that there is a discrepancy between the needs to improve safety, which have been outlined and identified by multiple reports, and the marginal progress that Transport Canada has made.

Just look at work-rest as an example. That has been a recommendation by your committee reports previously and it's still a huge problem. I remember interviewing Steve Callahan, who was an expert witness at the Lac-Mégantic trial, about fatigue management provisions in the SMS. He said they were kind of a joke, because it's a question of the bottom line. Companies can get away with it and they're not taking measures. It's the same thing with whistle-blower protection. It should be taken out.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Campbell.

I understand that perhaps your quote was misinterpreted.

You claim that DOT‑111 tank cars carry propane. As I understand it, that is not entirely true. I have had several discussions with officials.

In 2015, Transport Canada implemented an aggressive risk-based phasing out of DOT‑111 tank cars. The phase-out schedule has been accelerated twice. As of November 2016, they cannot be used to transport crude oil, but they can continue to transport other flammable liquids until April 2023. Transportation of ethanol and all other liquids continues until April 2025.

However, I am told that the rest of the liquids transported in much smaller volumes are rarely, if ever, transported by block train, that is, in long freight trains.

Do you believe that information you have provided is outdated? What are your comments on that?

[Bruce Campbell]

I would agree with your articulation of the phase-out schedule. It's 2025. They should be completely phased out.

I would note that the—

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

We're talking about ethanol transportation until 2025. As for crude oil, transportation stopped in November 2016.