Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 2nd, 2023

[Stéphane Perrault]

On our end, as I mentioned, we can reopen files for audits. We do that. Sometimes we do audits based on public information in the media. When we see things, we can carry out reviews. In fact, we have done so in response to media reports. But that is just an audit. If nothing comes out of it, I won't pass anything on to the commissioner's office. If something does come out of it, I'll pass the information on to her.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I know you can't disclose this information to us, but you may already be reviewing files or investigating those files. It is important to point that out.

I would like to go back to the maximum penalties that could be imposed. For example, imprisonment is a possibility. In the case of an elected member of Parliament, that person could potentially lose their seat. Those are possibilities when a serious violation of the Canada Elections Act is committed, right?

[Stéphane Perrault]

The act provides for a range of penalties. The commissioner has a chart that she will provide to you. Generally, the most severe penalties are about five years in prison for an indictable offence. There are indeed cases where a member or a candidate could lose their seat.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Have you taken specific steps to address foreign interference not only from China, but also from Russia, which is a major source of concern?

[Stéphane Perrault]

For our part, in preparation for the election, we make sure to protect our IT infrastructure as best we can. We work with the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security. We also monitor social media. Our goal is to ensure that voters have the right information to vote. We don't look at the source, and it's often very difficult to know the real source anyway. We are interested in the content. In the content, we are interested in information about the voting process, so that voters would have the right information. We are not interested in whether or not what a candidate is saying critically is right or where the information is coming from.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you very much.

Just so our witnesses know, for the rest of the day we'll be going slightly over to make sure we get this round done and that we have the hour with our guests.

Mr. Cooper, there are five minutes for you, followed by Mr. Gerretsen, before we let them go.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Commissioner Simard, with the greatest of respect, I find it astounding that in response to the last question posed by Mr. Berthold you said that you had no knowledge or understanding of the particulars of the three new complaints. You're appearing here on a matter relating to serious allegations of foreign interference. Elections Canada is essentially the body—your office as commissioner—to enforce the law and, again, I'd submit that it's unacceptable that you'd come to this committee that ill prepared.

Moving on, I will ask either of you, have you met with Katie Telford since 2019?

[Stéphane Perrault]

Madam Chair, I've never met Ms. Telford.

[Caroline Simard]

I have also never met her.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Have you met with any minister in the government since 2019?

[Caroline Simard]

I took office six months ago. In the last six months, I have not met with any of the ministers you mention.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Has the previous commissioner, to your knowledge?

[Caroline Simard]

I have no idea.

[Stéphane Perrault]

Madam Chair, I do meet the minister responsible for democratic institutions, as I do meet opposition critics. I've shared an invitation to all parties to hear from them the concerns they have and to talk about some of the major priorities for our agency. That's whom I have met.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you for that.

Have you met with any minister's office staff since 2019? That's for both of you.

[Stéphane Perrault]

In the context of the minister, he or she is accompanied typically by staff.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

But never staff independent of the minister...?

[Stéphane Perrault]

No, never.

[Caroline Simard]

Me neither.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

What about security-cleared staff or other officials with the Liberal Party of Canada?

[Caroline Simard]

We meet with all the political parties only at the June advisory committee. At that time, I met with people. Other than that, it hasn't happened.

[Stéphane Perrault]

We meet periodically through the advisory committee of political parties. At that committee, I have a standing invitation for the commissioner, but we meet regularly with senior executives from all parties.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Okay. Thank you for that.

I would ask if you'd be prepared to undertake to provide to this committee the dates and names of the ministers and ministers' office staff, to the degree that is possible, along with any Liberal Party staff or officials whom you have met with since 2019. Will you undertake that?

[Stéphane Perrault]

Since, presumably, January 2019...?

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Yes, since January 2019.