Agriculture Committee on June 11th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 41 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. Today's meeting is taking place in hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Before I continue, I'd like to ask all in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, including our interpreters. You'll also notice a QR code on the card, which links to a short awareness video.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name or you're asked a question directly by a member before speaking. I don't think we have anyone on video conference today.

I'd also like to remind witnesses that committee members may ask questions in both French and English. If you need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece and select the listening channel you need in advance, in order to take full advantage of the time allotted for each question and answer. I remind you that all comments should go through the chair. For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand.

Joining us today for the first 45 minutes, we have, from the Atlantic Food Action Coalition, Justin Cantafio. From Food First NL, we have Joshua Smee. From Second Harvest Canada, we are joined by Lori Nikkel, chief executive officer.

We'll start with Joshua, please.

You have five minutes.

[Joshua Smee, Chief Executive Officer, Food First NL]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Good morning, in fact. I'm still on Atlantic time, I think.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to the committee about this important topic today, and thanks for taking it up.

My name is Joshua Smee. I'm the CEO of Food First NL. We are a non-profit organization with staff across both Newfoundland and Labrador. At Food First NL, our vision is of a Newfoundland and Labrador where everyone can eat with joy and dignity. That vision reminds us that food security isn't just about how many calories you eat. It's about where those calories come from, how you eat them, and whom you eat them with.

In these unstable times, every part of that picture is under pressure. Your committee has heard this repeatedly. You've had some great speakers in, including folks from our own province.

When our organization looks around at the state of our local food system in Newfoundland and Labrador, too often we see a landscape of missed opportunities. We see an aging population of farmers at the same time as we see young people struggling to find a foothold in the food system. We see stores full of imported food that's been sitting on trucks and in warehouses for weeks, while local producers struggle to access local markets. We see the vast majority of our province's institutional buyers, places like hospitals and schools, sending their food budgets out of province, not because they don't want to invest locally but because they don't have a mechanism to do so.

What could some solutions look like?

We think that, at least in part, it looks like a thriving network of food hubs across the country. We're really excited to hear the details of the announcement that's coming this afternoon, because I think that lines up pretty closely with some of what I'm going to say. I think I can preview Justin's remarks a little here.

We operate two non-profit food hubs in Newfoundland and Labrador right now, one in western Newfoundland and one in the Avalon Peninsula. I'll tell you a bit about how they work.

We operate an online store that producers in each region sign up for. Each week, they post what they have, and then customers can make a single order that includes products from as many producers as they want. Food First NL goes out, gathers things in bulk from all the producers, divides them into customer orders and ships those back to pickup points in people's own communities all over the province. You go down to your local store to gas up your car, and there's a box waiting for you with your name on it, with products from 40 different farmers in it.

That's the kind of community-based solution we're seeing emerge all across the country. To be clear, we did not invent this model. We are riding a wave that is spreading across Canada, and for a very good reason. Food hubs provide huge benefits, both to producers and to purchasers.

The biggest impact here is on small farmers and other small producers, many of whom can't gain access into grocery stores or can't afford to, and on new entrants, especially new Canadians entering the food system. These folks gain immediate access to an enthusiastic market with thousands of customers and dedicated promotional and marketing support. They have to spend less time off their farm or outside of their operation trying to sell and more time doing their work.

On the consumer side, people are able to access local food more reliably, particularly people who don't have access to a car or don't have a farmer's market nearby. MP Connors is here from Newfoundland and Labrador. We know how it works. We have the highest percentage of farm gate sales in the country. That's all well and good if you can drive from farm gate to farm gate, but lots of us can't.

We also see that restaurants and institutional buyers whose orders are too big for a single producer to meet can use a food hub to aggregate products from multiple producers. As an operator, we've seen a lot of success with this, but we've also seen the challenges these models face.

For a food hub to stand on its own two feet financially, it needs time to build up its market and its customer base. That is a hard thing for a non-profit organization to come by. Our funding systems are overwhelmingly focused on supporting capital costs, when what a lot of these local initiatives actually need are operating dollars. They need some runway.

We do, though, see some really great things coming. We see a powerful alignment emerging now with the national school food program. A core principle of Canada's school food policy is that food be locally sourced where possible, and reflective of local and regional circumstances. We've seen recent research showing that a national school food program could contribute $4.8 billion to local economies through domestic food purchasing over the next 10 years and create hundreds of thousands of jobs in the food system. In our conversations with stakeholders across Newfoundland and Labrador, we have heard over and over that food hubs are going to play a critical role in making this happen.

“What can government do?” is a question that always comes to mind.

We would hope to see a dedicated funding stream emerge that can make both capital and operating investments in this kind of infrastructure, multi-year investments that give these kinds of infrastructure projects the runway they need to get off the ground and sustain themselves.

We also really hope to see continued work to embed conversations about local procurement into the conversations between the federal government and the provincial governments as the next round of school food agreements is updated. It's really important to have the federal government play that role in setting targets and keeping the provinces ambitious about local procurement.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Next, we'll go to Second Harvest.

[Lori Nikkel, Chief Executive Officer, Second Harvest Canada]

Good morning. I'm Lori from Second Harvest. I'm the CEO. We are Canada's largest food rescue organization and a leading source of information on food waste.

We tackle food waste at the systems level through research, surplus food redistribution, education and advocacy, and our research on food waste is Canada's best resource on where, why and how much of our food that is produced for Canada is being lost or wasted across the supply chain.

We also did some great research on charitable organizations, of which there are 61,000 across this country, that are providing people with low- or no-cost food. We work with about 15,000 food businesses across every province and territory to rescue their good surplus food and distribute it to some of these charities, and we supported six million people last year with that great food that would have gone to waste.

We have a pretty unique perspective on food security, food waste and the opportunities that exist within Canada's food system, and one of the key themes emerging from this wonderful committee's work on the study is that food security extends far beyond production. We agree that while Canada produces an abundance of food, barriers related to affordability, access, distribution and food loss and waste continue to prevent many people from getting the food they need.

Addressing these challenges requires a systems-wide approach, and today I'll focus on three areas as you consider evidence for this study.

First, Canada must unlock more value within its own food system by investing in domestic processing capacity and innovation. Across Canada, we continue to export raw materials while importing higher-value processed foods. Meanwhile, industry leaders tell us that parts of Canada's food processing and co-packing infrastructure are underused and causing edible food to go to waste.

To better understand these challenges, Second Harvest has launched a national research project on Canada's food processing and co-packing capacity. The study will identify where infrastructure exists, where capacity gaps remain, where assets are underused and what barriers prevent businesses from making full use of existing facilities. It will also examine trends in exporting raw commodities and importing finished products to identify opportunities to keep more value creation in Canada. Industry stakeholders involved in the project have already told us that this is research that should have been undertaken years ago.

The research is supported by an advisory committee that includes Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, national industry associations, major food processors and Canada's largest retailers.

It is rare to see this level of alignment across the food value chain, and it underscores the importance of addressing long-standing gaps in our understanding of Canada's food processing capacity.

Second, I want to highlight how strengthening local production and processing will reduce food waste and our environmental impact. Our research shows that we waste 46.5% of all the food produced for Canada. Of that, 58 billion dollars' worth is avoidable waste of perfectly edible food. The annual CO2 emissions from this avoidable food waste are equal to the emissions of 5.6 million cars every year.

Buying locally can help reduce food waste by reducing the number of food miles travelled between farm and consumer, allowing food to arrive fresher and with a longer remaining shelf life. Shorter supply chains also reduce spoilage, damage and quality deterioration during transportation, particularly for perishable foods. By keeping food closer to where it's produced, a local food system helps ensure more food is eaten rather than wasted.

Third, I will draw from Second Harvest's experience in supporting local purchasing initiatives and food recovery programs that kept Canadian food in Canada's communities.

During the pandemic, the federal government's surplus food rescue program provided emergency funding to purchase surplus food that lost its markets when restaurants, hotels and institutions suddenly closed.

Through that program, we purchased and redistributed more than 9.4 million pounds of surplus food across every province and territory. It supported Canadian producers and food businesses facing unprecedented disruption, while ensuring that good food reached communities instead of going to waste.

Beyond the food itself, the program helped build and strengthen a national network of community organizations, distribution partners and logistics infrastructure that continues to support food recovery efforts today.

In 2022, as you all may remember, there was a market disruption that left millions of pounds of P.E.I. potatoes without a destination, so we partnered with government, growers and community organizations to purchase and redistribute 12 million pounds of those potatoes across Canada to everywhere, including rural and remote places.

In 2024, when the closure of a major fruit co-operative left apples stranded in B.C. orchards, we worked with farmers and partners to purchase and distribute more than 154,000 pounds of apples.

Initiatives like these provide a release valve after a supply chain disruption, supporting Canadian businesses in recovering value, increasing access to nutritious food and keeping more Canadian-grown food within the domestic food system.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you.

Next, we'll go to the Atlantic Food Action Coalition.

You have five minutes.

[Justin Cantafio, Director, Atlantic Food Action Coalition]

Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee members.

Thank you for inviting me to appear here today.

My name is Justin Cantafio, and I'm the director of policy with the Centre for Local Prosperity. I'm also a co-founder and current director with the Halifax Regional Food Hub, and I'm appearing today as director with the Atlantic Food Action Coalition, or AFAC.

AFAC works across Atlantic Canada to strengthen food sovereignty and community-rooted food systems. Over the past several months, we've supported a listening project with over 150 farmers and food producers. I'll be drawing from those conversations today.

This study asks the right questions: how we strengthen food security amid global instability, create more value in Canada's food chain, support local production and processing, and support local purchasing. Answering these questions honestly means going beyond the usual language of growth, innovation and productivity.

Our clearest finding is that Canada doesn't have a food production problem. That is not the root of our food insecurity crisis. Our farmers know how to grow food. What we're losing are the systems that let communities feed themselves—the processing, storage, distribution, procurement, local ownership and market pathways that move food from farms into homes, communities, institutions and beyond.

Across Atlantic Canada, demand for local food is real. Consumers want it, institutions want to buy it, and producers want to supply it, but the middle of the food system has been hollowed out.

Producers tell us about lost processing facilities, lost abattoirs, limited cold storage, weak local distribution, difficult procurement pathways and increasing transportation costs. Many can grow food, but they can't profitably sell it into regional markets. We lost over 21% of our farms in five years in Nova Scotia. If a region can't process, store, distribute or purchase the food that it produces, it's not resilient by any measure.

True resilience comes from diversity, redundancy, interconnection and the ability to adapt. A system built on concentrated ownership, long supply chains and just-in-time logistics may look efficient under stable conditions, but under stress it breaks—and it's breaking.

We also need to name corporate concentration directly. Canada has one of the most corporately concentrated grocery sectors in the entire world, and concentration continues to rise across processing, distribution inputs and seed systems.

The issue isn't whether value is created in Canada; it's who captures that value, who owns the infrastructure, who sets the terms, and whether food-system wealth circulates in communities or leaks out of them.

This speaks directly to the gap between producers and consumers. Farmers are at the end of their margins. Labour, land, debt, fuel, feed, fertilizer—it goes on. They're all going to keep rising in cost. Many simply can't charge less and survive. At the same time, households are facing a brutal cost of living crisis, and Canada's grocery sector is continuing to profit.

That gap won't be solved by telling producers to absorb more costs or telling consumers to pony up and pay more. It requires shorter supply chains, stronger local markets and public policy that helps more value reach producers while increasing access for eaters.

That's where community wealth building is helpful. It asks who owns these assets, who gets the contracts, where public spending goes and whether wealth stays rooted locally. GDP misses out on this. The GDP can rise while the number of farms falls, while food insecurity climbs and while public dollars keep getting siphoned out of the tax base.

This is why local food isn't a cute thing. It's not just a consumer preference. It's not a branding exercise. It's pragmatism. It's food sovereignty, power, agency, land, governance and control over our very food systems.

Based on what we've heard in Atlantic Canada, we recommend four practical solutions. First, invest in the missing middle of regional food infrastructure. We gutted it. We can rebuild it.

Second, use your public procurement dollars as an economic development tool. Institutions already pay for food. Public spending should be serving the public good, not chasing sticker prices, and regional procurement requires hard actual purchasing minimums.

Third, we need to strengthen fair-price market pathways. That means supporting independent grocers, farmers' markets, food hubs, co-operatives and regional distribution, all while addressing corporate concentration.

Fourth, we need to really start measuring what matters. If we count only export growth, output and GDP, guess what we keep missing? Farm profitability, succession, processing capacity, ownership diversity, economic leakage, food insecurity, local economic multiplier effects—the list goes on.

What we're hearing loud and clear is that folks aren't asking for another short-term pilot project to solve this problem. People are asking for the infrastructure, funding and policy conditions to rebuild food systems that are resilient, democratic and rooted in place.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much.

We'll start our first round of six minutes with the Conservatives.

Mr. Epp.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of you for your testimony and also for the good work that your organizations do.

Very recently, as in hours ago, I came back from a conference that dealt more with global food systems, touching on many of the themes that you did as well. Caloric intake for the world on average is 2,963 calories per person. In North America it's 3,500. It's down to 2,600 for Africa. In Asia it's just under 3,000. Much of the world has room to grow. Obviously, they're also going to be focused on local systems.

The speaker I took a lot away from was Richard Sexton, whose book is Food Fight. He gave an interesting presentation. This will sound a little counter to some of your testimony, but he was saying three things: The world needs to eliminate yield-reducing policies, it needs to stop discouraging innovation through regulations and legislation, and it needs to find the most efficient land use and the most efficient purposes. That's his approach, but he's coming at it from more of a global system. You're coming at it from more a local system.

I have a question for each of you. North America averages 3,500 calories. What's the present caloric intake supplied locally? By locally, let's say it's Atlantic Canada.

Lori, I'll start with you, and then we'll go across.

[Lori Nikkel]

I don't have a clue what the answer to that is, but I'll go back to the food waste. Our systems globally are broken. If we can waste this much food while people can't have food, that's a big problem. Calorically, I think it would vary, depending on whom you're looking at.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Justin.

[Justin Cantafio]

It's a great question. There are already more than enough calories on the planet to feed people. Most food is actually grown by smallholders or by small- to medium-scale farmers. Globally, there's 29% food insecurity. Where I live, it's about that percentage too. That's by design. That's a choice. I think the challenge, really, is to recalibrate the food system such that it's of and for the people and not of and for the profit-takers.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Joshua.

[Joshua Smee]

In Newfoundland and Labrador, we don't have calorie data, but I can tell you a few things. We know that the vast majority of the food eaten by folks in our province is brought in from outside. We don't have an exact read on it, but it's somewhere between 75% and 90%. However, I think what we miss when we use that number is that we also have the highest rate of wild food access of any province. Everyone I know either fishes or hunts, or knows someone who does, and a lot of people are producing their own food outside of the market economy. We're not counting food that's grown in roadside gardens on the highway, if you've ever driven up the Northern Peninsula in Newfoundland, and stuff like that.

I think for most people in Atlantic Canada, it's true that we'll always be in a global food system and that most of our calories will always come from outside of it, but we have to be careful not to let that swamp the thinking about how to make the local food system stronger within the share that it is still making up.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I live in southwestern Ontario, which has a rich diversity of access to food, but I suspect that most of my food is also not drawn locally, because of the diversity, which came up...and to have that access. I think we all want to strengthen our local systems. I'll get to the “missing middle” in a second. I really liked that language.

What's your recommendation? Agriculture is a shared jurisdiction between the federal government and the provincial governments. How do we get at that? How do we get at encouraging the processing when it becomes a shared jurisdiction? Where does the responsibility lie?

[Joshua Smee]

I think there are couple of pieces. There are joint federal-provincial programs that are important players in the funding space. Sustainable CAP, for instance, is a vital support for farmers and producers, with their equipment costs and things like that. There's a new policy framework being developed for SCAP right now. It's important to think through some of the questions this committee is addressing in that policy framework development.

The other role the feds can really play is as a target setter. In agreements with the provinces, such as the school food agreements, the federal government has the opportunity to build in targets and look to the provinces to figure out ways to meet them, particularly for institutional procurement, which is a real driver of this.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Would either of you like the opportunity to weigh in?

[Justin Cantafio]

Yes. One thing I like to stress is that food security is a matter of national security. We need to find ways to take our coffers, which are considerably larger at the federal level, especially if you consider the size of the coffers of a small province like Nova Scotia, and incentivize public partnerships between provinces and the federal government. I think we have a big kitty we can draw from. We'll see the provincial government happily join up or follow suit, but they can't do it on their own.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Ms. Nikkel, you touched on the affordability aspect. How do we get at that? Is the gap in affordability coming from how our food systems are structured, or is it coming from our general economy and our general income? How do we get at that affordability?

[Lori Nikkel]

It's income. I would argue that it's income.

To your first question, I would say that federally you have a role to play in the harmonization of things across the provinces. That's a big problem. When we can get a farmers tax credit in four provinces and not across the board, that's a problem.

Poverty reduction is about income. People need money in their pockets to buy food. That is a very complex system. It is not just within the agriculture system. I would go back to the argument that the agriculture system is broken when we can waste this much food while people are hungry. It won't solve hunger, but we can solve an environmental imperative while we work on policy for the economics of just your average person.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

You all touched on the missing middle, the processing capability, the value adding that we don't do a good enough job of. Again, where do we start in addressing that?

Lori.

[Lori Nikkel]

We start with the research. We need foundational research to say what's actually happening across this country so that we can make decisions and goals for that. That's what we're starting with.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much.

We will go next to the Liberals for six minutes.

MP Connors.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Thank you very much.

Welcome to our guests.

Welcome, Josh. I want to say what great work you and Food First NL are doing in Newfoundland. It's remarkable.

To the other associations as well, you're doing lots of great work.

Josh, the issue of food security in Newfoundland and Labrador is a bit distinct from in other places. We are an island, and we rely on Marine Atlantic to bring a lot of our fresh fruit and vegetables to the island. In your opening remarks, you talked about missed opportunities in the demand for local food. Can you elaborate on some of those missed opportunities?

[Joshua Smee]

Sure. I'm happy to. I think there are a lot of them.

For example, we've seen this on the institutional buying side. I was talking to a school food provider who spent a whole summer trying to figure out how to replace their imported carrot supply with local carrots. As you know, we don't grow a lot of things in our province, but we do grow plenty of those. They couldn't make it work. That missing middle wasn't there. There was no one they could buy from in the quantities they need, who could ship in the quantities they need, or who could process in the ways they need to supply their school food program.

This is the kind of story we hear all the time, particularly from schools and from hospitals. Think about who the biggest buyers are and who could make the most impact on the shape of the sector by doing things like forward contracting. If producers knew that there was a steady demand going forward, that would give them the security to expand their operations. With the missing middle, it just isn't happening. Those connections are getting missed. People are sailing past each other.

They're saying that they want to work together, and we hear that, but we also hear that from individual households who would love to buy local but don't know how. In particular, if we talk to folks in larger communities, such as St. John's or Corner Brook, lots of them don't have access to the countryside where the producers are located. They're missing out. We hear from them all the time. It's those people who are driving the demand for the food hubs and other operations that already exist.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

We're talking about the missing middle. In Newfoundland and Labrador, we talk a lot about storage facilities and the capability of farmers to work together or to have storage facilities. What's your experience with that, from your food hub experience?

[Joshua Smee]

Storage facilities matter. I think it's important to have more investment in shared storage, but I think we're finding that the bigger gaps right now are processing and distribution. If you operate a small store on the Northern Peninsula of Newfoundland, and you'd like to buy food from Cormack, which is a couple of hours down the road, it's remarkably difficult to do that. Our distribution system is not set up to bring small quantities, often, from small producers to small retailers in small communities.

That's the gap. That's what we're hearing about more often. It's transportation and distribution more than shared storage, per se.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

We also talk about farm gate sales in Newfoundland. A lot of farms rely on it. That's their market, farm gate sales; therefore, they don't have access to the larger retail operations. Can you see farms in Newfoundland and Labrador being successful through farm gate sales or through farm hubs?

[Joshua Smee]

Yes, we've seen it happen. I think the advantage of participating in things like food hubs is that you get a team on your side. You get someone whose job it is to promote what you're doing, to take care of the logistics and to let you get back to work on your farm. Farm gate sales are important, but they're also uncertain. You're taking a risk. You're harvesting things that might not be sold. Things like food hubs allow people to pre-sell what they're going to harvest. It brings efficiency into the system and lets people get back to their work.

I think one of the crises we face is a labour crisis in food production. If people are taking time out of their day to drive into town or to spend time out on their gate selling, that can be a real challenge. We've seen that producers are really enthusiastic, especially the small ones who are looking for a way into the market. When you look at people who are in their twenties and thirties trying to get a foothold in food production, those folks really benefit from instant access to a larger network of purchasers.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Thank you very much.

You also mentioned in your opening remarks “joy and dignity” for people related to food security. Can you elaborate a little on what you think food security actually means to individuals?

[Joshua Smee]

That's a great question. When you talk about defining food security, it's not just about calories, as I said. It's about access to sufficient, healthy and culturally appropriate foods for people. When you think about what that looks like in reality, it's being able to share a meal with your family, with your friends or with your community. It's being able to participate. How much community life happens over food? How many stories could we all tell that involve food? It's the participation that matters. That's why access is not enough. Dignity matters. Joy matters. It's having that moment of celebration.

That's often where local food fits in. We hear it over and over. We have a lived and living experience advisory group. They're a group of folks who all have lived experience of food insecurity, and they talk a lot about local food. Folks who've experienced food insecurity would like to be able to participate in that part of community life. If your food access landscape is based on going to food banks and meal programs, sometimes you miss out on that. That's where joy and dignity fit in. It's why providing access to the same kinds of foods the rest of us have access to really matters.

[Paul Connors, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Thank you.

Once again, thanks to everybody.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much.

Next, we'll go to the Bloc for six minutes.

Monsieur Lemire.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Smee, I really appreciate the discussion and your remarks about food hubs.

My region, Abitibi‑Témiscamingue, is a six‑hour drive north up the Ottawa River. In some ways, it's the Newfoundland and Labrador of Quebec, if you will. It's a mining and forestry region as well.

The study that I carried out showed me that deficiencies are found everywhere. It's almost impossible to make just one stage of the food chain profitable. You spoke about the will of producers. They're there as well.

What pitfalls do you come up against?

Given the current context—where federal government officials are gathered and where the minister may be tuning in—I'm most interested in how we can use public resources to create community infrastructure that will make a difference in farm profitability. Otherwise, it wouldn't be profitable in regions where settling the land and towns is also becoming profitable for communities that want to live on their land.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Joshua Smee]

Thank you for the question. It's a great question. I think there are a lot of challenges when it comes to particularly the early stages of building up local food distribution networks. It takes time to build up a network of producers to get to scale.

There are moments at which these things become self-sustaining, but you have to get pretty big. Especially for non-profit organizations—I'm sure many people around this table have been involved—we don't have the same access to capital. We can't take out a loan. We don't have access to business financing. I think one of the ways that government and public resources are most important is in providing that kind of support to non-profits that are providing the infrastructure for private producers and buyers to meet.

For us, the critical point is that there are real limits if that support is only for capital equipment. I am very happy that I was able to get a grant to buy an electric van. It makes my program work. We wouldn't be able to afford to do it without it, but there also has to be someone to drive that van. That is the hardest part of the work to resource—the human capital of people to do the work of picking up the food, packing it and moving it. In the non-profit ecosystem, that's really challenging. That's the missing piece, up to this point, in some of the government support programs for this kind of infrastructure. They don't cover the soft costs that let us have that runway to get to a point where it can sustain itself by earning its own revenue.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I'll also talk about putting products on the market, which is often impossible to prepare in regions such as ours.

My office has been looking into the possibility of transforming the buses that help transport people by installing freezers or refrigerators in part of the vehicle. While we're going through the towns, we could also distribute fresh produce in the towns, in convenience stores. This would help everyone have access to fresh food, because accessibility is a major challenge.

I also want to mention something that came out of our first study. I'm happy to share it with you, because I think that we could influence each other in a positive way. The study concerns slaughtering. Our region has many beef producers in particular.

However, there haven't been any slaughterhouses in Abitibi‑Témiscamingue for over 25 or 30 years. This hasn't worked for a variety of reasons. One reason is that, even for savings of half a cent per tonne, producers often go to other places. Solidarity is a challenge.

That said, I'm a great believer in community infrastructure. Isn't it the government's responsibility to take risks?

At this time, as a result of risk sharing and insurance—which must be taken into account—we need to cap the amount of public money available to invest with the provinces. There are so many standards for a slaughterhouse that it would cost at least $8 million to $10 million to build a slaughterhouse up to standard.

How do you think the government should assume the risks of this challenge?

I believe that it should assume all the risks, since a slaughterhouse is like infrastructure, like an aqueduct. It could be community infrastructure, which the government would fund through taxes.

Would this work for you?

[Joshua Smee]

That's a great question. I think you're right to name it that. We sometimes make these conversations about farming, and we drift into a conversation just about fruits and vegetables and crops, but local protein is a very important part of the mix. As an operator, I know that's one of the things that are most in demand.

On the affordability crisis, I think all of us in this room are feeling it when we walk into a corporate grocery store now. The price of protein is extremely high. Accessing local is one of the ways you can see the impact for people. They can reach a more affordable price point.

I don't have an answer on the exact place the federal government should sit in de-risking, other than to say that I think it is a very important project to gather people in community—in collectives, in co-operatives or in other shared structures—so that these kinds of facilities have community ownership and are governed by community and by more than one player in the ecosystem.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We're talking about the cost of food. When we pay off a mortgage, there are associated interest costs. These costs are passed on to the consumers. If we want people in the regions to pay less, an infrastructure paid for collectively ensures that consumers ultimately pay less for their food.

Mr. Cantafio, would you like to add anything?

[Justin Cantafio]

Thank you.

Yes. I was just thinking that one of the ways you incentivize local affordability is through procurement minimums. Using your institutions as economic anchor institutions is important, especially since many of these provincially and federally funded institutions are located remotely. You create regional churn, and you lower the cost of production.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you.

We have about eight minutes before we have to stop and get ready for the next round. We'll do three minutes, three minutes and one and a half minutes.

We'll go to Mr. Barlow for three minutes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Chair.

I'll get right into it. I have only three minutes.

You all mentioned the importance of, as Ms. Nikkel called it, “foundational research”.

I'll ask Justin, just because of your neck of the woods and your comments and your discussions with farmers. We talk about how important research is, but the government is shutting down seven critical research stations and experimental farms, including the Nappan farm near Truro and Amherst in Nova Scotia. That will also impact and very likely lead to the closure of the Maritime Beef Institute.

These two facilities have been operating for almost 100 years, developing forage and beef genetics that thrive in Atlantic Canada. What impact will shutting down this type of research and these types of programs that have helped with that local food production have in Atlantic Canada in terms of food security?

[Justin Cantafio]

That's a great example of our relying on corporations to do the work that they cannot do well, when they're driven predominantly by profit extraction and capital accumulation. If we have surging rates of farmer loss and farmland loss, and we have decreasing food sovereignty.... In Newfoundland and Labrador, less than 10% of the food is from there. Less than 15% of Nova Scotia's food is from Nova Scotia. Less than 8% of the vegetables in New Brunswick are from there. What you're doing is you're eroding your region's food sovereignty. You're assuming that the very corporate entities that have been proven guilty of bread price-fixing and other forms of profiteering are going to solve these problems.

Food sovereignty means having place-based or community-rooted food infrastructure. That includes research. That's just required. It needs to be reflective of the place. You need to have folks who have that real wisdom—your farmers—involved.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Lori, you've raised the foundational research in your comments, too, and not only here. I highlighted Nappan. These research farms are in every province in the country, almost right across the country, and definitely have an impact.

We talk about cold storage and Lacombe. They're going to lose Canada's only biosecurity cold storage facility and meat-grading research. What impact is this going to have on local food production?

[Lori Nikkel]

Mr. Barlow, I'm not qualified to answer that question, full stop. I'm looking at research from a national perspective on what's happening in manufacturing. I think research is critical, but I don't know enough about those to really answer that well.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Josh, do you want to add anything to that?

[Joshua Smee]

I think I'm in the same boat as Lori is on this one. I don't know enough about the specific institutions to comment. Thanks.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

On the interprovincial trade issue, Bill C-5 exempted food from.... We talk about value added and processing. How important is it to reduce those interprovincial trade barriers so that it will encourage that local processing of value added as well?

Josh, you're from Newfoundland, and I'm sure that's an issue there.

[Joshua Smee]

I think that absolutely matters.

When we think about the kinds of layers to our food system, there are layers of local: local within your region, local within your province and local interprovincially. Reducing those barriers.... From the perspective of most people in our province, I think, it's better if we're eating Atlantic than if we're eating international, for example.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much.

We will go to the Liberals for three minutes with Mr. Kelloway.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Sydney—Glace Bay, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's great to be on this committee. I come from Cape Breton Island, and it's great to hear from two-thirds of you, and to learn from you, Lori, about the work that's being done across the country. It is really important.

There are a couple of things from the testimony that I want to highlight in the very short time we have.

I'm big on unpacking words. I come from the not-for-profit world. When someone says “operating”, my ears perk up, because in the not-for-profit world writ large, you're asked to do projects to obtain money to do them, which is fine, but it doesn't address the underlying challenges and opportunities.

Three of you mentioned this in a roundabout way—you directly—with respect to “capital” and “operating”. I'm wondering if you can unpack those words. I know what capital is. I know what operating is. I wonder if the three of you can unpack, within capital, consistent themes under capital, and within operating, consistent themes under operating.

[Joshua Smee]

Sure. I can start.

I think part of this for us is that for capital there are a couple of pieces.

One is processing equipment. Physical pieces of equipment to process food are really important parts of the mix for community-driven food hubs. Most of them are never going to sustain themselves by just selling food to households. Access to the kind of equipment that can cut a carrot down to the size that a hospital needs to cook it in its steam cooker, for example, is one kind of capital that matters. The other capital is things like distribution vehicles. That's a big part of it. Most of this kind of work only works if you own your own fleet.

On the operating side, though, I think the biggest part of it, to your point, is steady, reliable, multi-year operating funds that you can plan on. The biggest challenge of running a community organization is not knowing what your budget is going to be 12 months from now. That's especially true when producers are planning their production based on your operation.

We worked really closely with the Cape Breton Food Hub to seed ours. They were our inspiration. We talk to them all the time. They are amazing people. We've learned a lot from them. One of the things we've learned from them is that predictability is part of the value proposition for producers.

[Lori Nikkel]

Can I speak to that for just one second?

At Second Harvest, the school food program came to us because they needed cut carrots. We had to build out a microprocessing centre so that they could have local cut carrots in the schools. Otherwise, they were going to get processed food.

Our truck used to cost us $135,000. Now it's $250,000. Our cost for third party logistics across the country has skyrocketed. We're looking at an increase of $2.5 million next year alone. Operating third party as we build in the manufacturing, we have to hire 12 to 15 people to make a go. There's just cost after cost after inflation after inflation, so here we are. We need your help, man.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Sydney—Glace Bay, NS]

Thank you, Lori. I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

I'll go to the Bloc and Mr. Lemire. We have enough time for two minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Cantafio, I'll give you time to continue your remarks.

[Justin Cantafio]

That's nice of you. Thank you.

I did just want to elaborate a bit on the concept of community wealth building as a framework that I think could be very helpful for this idea of addressing food insecurity in the wake of global instability and all these increasing pressures.

Scotland as a sovereign nation just adopted community wealth building as a framework at the federal level a number of weeks ago. They're using it to ensure something that Joseph Howe, a person from my neck of the woods, talked about: “What is for the public good?” Every time we stimulate the local economy, is it for the public good? We should double-check.

Community wealth building has five pillars. I won't name them all, but one of the pillars is progressive procurement. It's making sure you use your public tax dollars to do the public good. To Mr. Lemire's question, we have these very isolated communities, many of which have provincially and/or federally funded institutions with significant food purchasing budgets. If you relocalize even 30%, which I think needs to be the bare minimum, you subtly create the type of economic demand and churn necessary to incentivize the additional food infrastructure you might need.

If I'm a rural abattoir, I might not exist anymore and you might need somebody to drive over with a truck. I've seen that in Quebec. Maybe, though, if you have an army base or a school or a jail preferentially sourcing all their beef locally, for example, suddenly you may be incentivized to make the economic case to mobilize that institution as an anchor institution to create the local food ecosystem that you need.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I agree.

Your point is important. The challenge is often to maintain consistent production in the regions. By focusing on the institutional sector and having obligations, we can support that sector and ensure profitability.

I still want to emphasize the importance of not having liabilities or debts passed on to consumers in the regions. We can do this, especially if risk management is shared and largely shouldered by the governments.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Was that Joseph Howe the former premier of Nova Scotia?

[Justin Cantafio]

You got it.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

That was a good reference.

Thank you very much to our witnesses. It was very informative. We appreciate your time.

We will stop for five minutes while we transition to the next group.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

I'd like to welcome everyone back.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, September 18, 2025, the committee is resuming its study on food security in the face of global instability.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses. All of them are online.

From Greener Village, we have Alex Boyd.

We have, from La Tablée des Chefs, Jean-François Archambault.

From the Salvation Army, we have Luke Orrell and Karen Hoeft.

Thank you so much for being here. You each have five minutes as organizations. Please, just as a reminder, if you do have something to say, you can use the “raise hand” function.

We'll start with the Salvation Army for five minutes. Welcome.

[Karen Hoeft, Assistant Public Affairs Director, Salvation Army]

Good morning, Mr. Chair and honourable members.

On behalf of the Salvation Army, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to your study on food security in the face of global instability.

As the largest non-government provider of social services in Canada, this is something we see every day in the 400 communities—urban, suburban, rural, remote and northern—that we serve across our country from coast to coast to coast. The one thing that is similar in every jurisdiction, in every unit across our nation, is food security issues.

The food policy for Canada's vision is that “All people in Canada are able to access a sufficient amount of safe, nutritious, and culturally diverse food.” Food security is fundamentally about access, ensuring that people living in Canada have reliable access to nutritious food. The access to food is what we would like to speak to today.

Individuals and families are turning to community food hubs when food insecurity means that there's not enough food at home for their dinner. The Salvation Army has been working to strengthen food security and to improve support for the people we serve across our country. The people we serve, who are on limited incomes—seniors, single-income families, minimum wage earners and those on income assistance programs—face barriers to accessing local food. They're usually limited to the cheapest, mass-produced food, sourced from distant locations. Food security requires support to ensure access to locally produced food.

As this committee has heard previously, food affordability and access are closely tied to the people and labour supporting every stage of that system. Community organizations continue to face the same rising costs for food, labour and operations as other sectors, so food distributed through the charitable and not-for-profit sector requires significant supports beyond the food itself. Those include staffing, program space, transportation, storage and essential supplies—the elements that are necessary to ensure safe and dignified service delivery and that contribute meaningfully to the overall cost of food programming.

During the COVID-19 pandemic, when global supply chains fractured and many more people than usual in our community faced food insecurity in the face of global instability, the federal government recognized this. Through the emergency food security fund, the government stepped up with direct funding for frontline community networks, of which we as the Salvation Army were one. This model proved that predictable federal investments allow local organizations to stabilize procurement, absorb market shocks and safely bridge the gap between Canadian producers and vulnerable households.

Now, in the face of ongoing global instability and inflation, that baseline support is more urgent than ever. As household budgets tighten, community needs are trending up at the exact moment that donations are dipping. We cannot build a resilient, sovereign food system on unpredictable, reactive charity alone.

In our pre-budget submission, we called for the establishment of a permanent, stable $300-million federal food security fund. This fund would represent a substantial step forward in supporting local community food procurement. It would give community hubs the financial predictability and stability to invest directly in the Canadian food chain. With permanent funding, the ability to scale innovative local initiatives that empower low-income families, seniors and remote communities to directly purchase fresh, locally grown food becomes a possibility.

With the upcoming national food security strategy, I look forward to discussing how, together, we can strengthen food security and ensure access to local food production for all people living in Canada through a strong and effective food policy.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much. We appreciate your being a witness here today.

Next, we'll go to Greener Village.

[Alex Boyd, Chief Executive Officer, Greener Village]

Through the chair, I want to start by expressing my appreciation for the opportunity to speak with you about the state of the work we are doing and how the instability we see globally impacts food security locally.

My name is Alex Boyd. I'm the CEO of Greener Village in Fredericton, New Brunswick.

Greener Village has been serving people living with food insecurity in Fredericton for over 40 years. We have witnessed over the course of the last 40 years an ever-expanding group of people in our community who are facing food insecurity and the inevitable hunger that comes when people have insufficient access to food. This hunger that food banks seek to satiate is damaging. It impacts our longevity, limits our potential, compromises our security and erodes our community cohesion. We have witnessed first-hand in just the last few years the deep impact global factors like pandemics, hyperinflation and war have on food insecurity factors at home. In the past five years alone, the number of people Greener Village is serving has increased by 135%. This is largely, if not overwhelmingly, driven by global factors.

It seems very clear from the lived experiences of agencies just like Greener Village, which is working directly with food-insecure people, that we can't overstate how difficult things become when we see global instability. This instability around the globe continues to impact the most the people who can influence it the least. It's why, as a country, we need to take a much more local approach to our food chain.

Buying local can be extremely difficult for people, especially for people facing food insecurity and the organizations, like Greener Village, that serve them. Local food is often in less processed forms, which is great for quality and health but more difficult for longevity and efficiency. Both individuals and agencies are often limited by access to cold storage to keep foods at their appropriate holding temperature for food safety and quality. Food banks have especially struggled as they seek to meet an ever-increasing demand, coupled with significant increases to the cost of each item provided to client families.

When you couple the challenges mentioned above with the uncertain access to resources when they're needed, both individuals and the agencies supporting them find themselves facing a very challenging question: Do I take the risk on local or play it safe with the convenience of shelf-stable, heavily processed foods?

Despite the convenience, we all know there are challenges involved with food that is grown on one continent and then shipped, processed or even sold on another continent. Not the least of these challenges is the cost, both fiscal and environmental, of the fuel and infrastructure needed to ensure that these supply chains continue to work.

We need to look towards investing in local infrastructure projects that make access to local food easier to handle and create more meaningful connections to our existing agriculture. By creating these connection points, we will give our agricultural sector a much needed boost to its customer base.

Unfortunately, food banks are not often seen as prime partners for local agriculture, and we continue to face infrastructure barriers to using fresh food products that may become available, especially on a large scale. Due to challenges within infrastructure, many food banks rely on heavily processed, shelf-stable products that are not typically from local sources and may not even be the most healthy.

While these barriers remain true, there is also a significant opportunity for local agriculture in partnership with food banks. Food Banks Canada's 2025 “Hunger Count” report noted a staggering 2.165 million visits to food banks each month. These visits reflect a massive volume of food that is being procured through food donations or with donated funds to food banks. What could and would our system look like if all of the donated funds that are purchasing food could be worked into the local agriculture system? Even if $25 of local products could be secured per visit, that would equate to over $50 million in spending every month. Instead of funds being used to ship products around the world in heavily processed formats, we would invest in the Canadian distribution of products that can be processed locally for families in need.

That's why Greener Village is nearing completion of a construction project to build our Thrive Perishable Food Rescue Centre. This new facility's purpose is very simple: saving viable fresh food from waste and investing in locally grown products. The centre will be able to receive and process fresh produce into freezer-stable products that will be distributed to food banks all throughout New Brunswick.

Greener Village and its partners, Feed NB and Food Banks Canada, are already creating partnerships with local producers to create healthy, local food that can be processed and distributed. This means higher-quality foods for the people I mentioned above, improving health and providing better nutrition so that people can perform better at work or school.

Our Thrive Perishable Food Rescue Centre is already a successful pilot for reimagining how food banks can reduce food waste and process local agricultural products for those most in need. Other jurisdictions are already deep in the planning stages for more food rescue centres across the country. Innovation like this is why any future food security strategy must include the food banking network as a partner. Creating infrastructure for meaningful connections to our local agriculture should remain an important priority and a method by which we can limit the instability we see globally and create a more food-secure country.

Thank you for inviting me. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much. We appreciate your testimony today.

Next, we'll go to La Tablée des Chefs. You have five minutes.

[Jean-François Archambault, Founder and Chief Executive Officer, La Tablée des Chefs]

Thank you for inviting me to participate in your study.

First, I would like to give you a brief overview of the work carried out at La Tablée des Chefs. La Tablée des Chefs' mission focuses on two components, which are feeding and educating.

Under the “feed” component, we have a program to recover surplus food from the hospitality, restaurant, event and institutional sectors, meaning food services across Canada. We currently distribute over 3.3 million servings across the country, in addition to what frontline organizations receive from food banks or other sources. Over 450 of our facilities participate in the program, including sports arenas and major event venues.

I would also like to tell you that La Tablée des Chefs has launched a program under its “feed” component that ties in with the national school food program. Our organization also provides soup. The solidarity soups program began two years ago in five elementary schools in the Montérégie region. It provides special food options and is now available in over 92 elementary schools. It also includes pilot projects in Winnipeg and Niagara Falls.

We operate in 375 public high schools, including 300 in Quebec and over 75 in eight other Canadian provinces. We work in both official languages, in English and French. We provide the kitchen brigades program in all these locations.

We also operate in over 80 locations under the youth protection branch throughout Quebec. We distribute over 6,000 starter kits to introduce young people to cooking. These young people are in transition. They will gradually shift towards independent living. These young people, aged 15 to 25, come from youth protection systems across the province. Over 20% of them live in indigenous communities. They're embarking on this crucial transition to independent living.

We work in the culinary industry. During the pandemic, we mobilized over 60 kitchens across Canada—

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

I'm sorry. I have to interrupt for a second.

Can you please lower your microphone? The interpreters are hearing some feedback. Take the microphone in front of you, on the arm, and lower it so it's a bit more aligned.

I'm sorry for interrupting. Please proceed.

[Jean-François Archambault]

No worries. Thank you.

La Tablée des Chefs is mobilizing the culinary community. During the pandemic, chefs prepared 4.4 million meals throughout Canada. Some 15,000 tonnes of food was sent to prepare meals across the country and distributed throughout 18 months of the pandemic.

I want to outline a couple of things that are crucial to our food recovery program.

Right now, we have the ambition. We think three million meals is just the tip of the iceberg. We think we can probably get five, six or seven times that quantity of food if we continue to mobilize the hospitality sector.

There's a misconception on the part of some of the inspection agencies across the country. There needs to be some more flexibility on that aspect in looking at the work we've been doing in Quebec in mobilizing the hospitality sector and allowing for prepared food that's been handled by chefs to be recovered and distributed to frontline agencies that are struggling to source food.

The other aspect is that a couple of weeks ago, Prime Minister Starmer launched a national program to triple the amount of surplus food that is collected through the fight against food waste in the U.K. It's bringing all community organizations together

You've heard Lori Nikkel. We work hand in hand with Second Harvest, many of the food banks in this country, the Salvation Army and many other partners. You have the ecosystem present on the social side of things. Now we have to get this ambition. It needs to start, not by looking at just the business sector, the corporate sector or the public sector for these big, national projects that Prime Minister Carney has launched, but by looking at food security as one of those projects. You have that infrastructure in place with us to work together, hand in hand, to reach that ambition. In Canada, triple the amount of food that is recovered and distributed to frontline agencies across this country. We can do five or six times that just by ourselves in mobilizing Destination Canada and sustainable tourism, getting all hotels and convention spaces on board and continuing to work hand in hand with community frontline organizations.

On food education, I think it is crucial that the national school food program bring in food literacy. I know it's built into the program, but when you negotiate with the provinces, it is important to be clear that it's not just food distribution. Food literacy is a big part of getting someone to learn how to cook and contribute—

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

I will stop you there. Thank you so much. Thank you for your patience during that slight delay.

We'll go to the Conservatives now for six minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Archambault, I would like to come back to your remarks on the vision of La Tablée des Chefs and its supply practices in particular. I found this interesting.

Would you like to finish sharing your thoughts on this topic?

[Jean-François Archambault]

I think that everything is in place for the players to make a bigger impact. We need to send a message to business owners and major groups, such as Hotels Canada or hotel owner groups.

Unless our Prime Minister and public institutions demonstrate leadership and resolve at the grassroots level across all the sectors solicited, this commitment won't be taken seriously. People will continue to carry on as usual. This means that we'll need to keep working on a piecemeal basis and reaching out to try to convince them.

We currently have access to all National Hockey League arenas across the country. We just won the 2026 F1® Allwyn Global Community Award in recognition of our recovery efforts. We fed 50,000 people in four days by recovering 16 tonnes of food at the Canadian Grand Prix in Montreal a few weekends ago. Events of this nature, where food is thrown away, are taking place all over the country right now.

So, if we don't send a clear message to event promoters to ensure that they implement these practices, if this isn't done at the highest levels of our country, which is demonstrating a serious national commitment to reducing food waste—we have the organizations to make this happen—then what are we waiting for?

We can't wait any longer. Food surpluses are extremely expensive. Through our program, it costs 25 cents to recover food. It costs La Tablée des Chefs 25 cents to deliver a meal to a frontline organization that serves homeless people to help families in need.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Archambault, your work is always a race against the clock. We know that food preservation is quite difficult and complicated.

Would you need refrigerated or frozen storage facilities? Could this help you?

What do you need to get the job done?

[Jean-François Archambault]

We certainly have needs in the events sector. The promoters help us, but not enough to set up the necessary refrigeration logistics at event venues. We need to make planning a priority.

Let's look at the current example of FIFA. In Vancouver, we're working with our partner organizations to move a refrigerator. The Salvation Army will be collecting surplus food from FIFA during the matches held in Vancouver. We're currently looking into the possibility of moving a two‑door refrigerator to the event venue. I've been told that the venue no longer has enough space to handle the food collection, even though we could collect roughly 20,000 food servings over two weeks of matches.

If we fail to set priorities in advance and make our message clear, and we then require promoters to provide community organizations with the infrastructure needed to combat food waste and make an environmental and social impact to feed people, we're doomed to fail.

I think that it's crucial to prioritize food recovery and to send a clear message. All our partners are on board to join the movement.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Even when it comes to your facilities and the collection of all this food, is your infrastructure lacking anything?

[Jean-François Archambault]

I would say that, when it comes to the events sector, it varies from case to case. Hotels have all the necessary infrastructure to handle this.

Let's take the example of our partnership with Marriott International hotels in Canada. We have a national partnership with Paul Cahill's team and all his hotels in Canada. We're currently rolling out the program across all Marriott properties in the country. These properties already have the infrastructure in place. Our job is really to support them and to provide the logistics, containers, bakery bags and containers for all liquids, as well as food safety and handling guidelines. These chefs are already trained in this area. We need to prioritize the message.

One thing that stands in our way is when a hotel owner fails to prioritize our program in their schedule. We need to email them repeatedly over the course of six months to convince them to do so, even though already over 300 hotels across the country are participating.

What we really need is a catalyst. We need to send clear messages that we can build on and to keep pushing forward. I spoke with Beth McMahon from Hotels Canada. We'll be having discussions about this. I'm also thinking of Destination Canada, with Liza Frulla. All the players are on board.

I think that we really need to establish a national ambition that includes the retail and agricultural sectors. We would work with individuals such as Lori Nikkel and the people from Food Banks Canada, as well as the hospitality and restaurant sector, including La Tablée des Chefs and other organizations involved in this effort.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Does supply meet demand?

The demand seems endless. Do you see any way, in the long run, to keep up with the demand?

[Jean-François Archambault]

For the next 10 years, we can strive to reach the target of 15 million to 20 million servings recovered. I think that work will still need to be done, but the key players will be on board by then. If we start from three million servings per year, I think that we can easily reach 15 million if all the players are on board.

The redistribution of food at a low cost could help struggling frontline organizations that are currently forced to purchase food that they hadn't factored into their budgets. As a result, they must turn to the business community to hold fundraising dinners and to organize events. This isn't a structuring or sustainable solution.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

I would like to congratulate you and all the members of your respective teams on your wonderful work. It's truly noble to be able to feed people in great need. Thank you, Mr. Archambault.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much.

Next, we'll go to the Liberals for six minutes, with MP Dandurand.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses for joining us today to discuss this key topic.

Honestly, since the beginning of the study, I think that we've been given some great solutions and ideas. It would probably be worth rolling out these solutions and ideas across Canada.

Thank you for your work and for your commitment to feeding people. This mission is vital. It's the key to eating well. This is especially true when the products come from Canada. I think that this is the case in everything that you do. You ensure that more people eat greater quantities of Canadian products and that they have enough to eat. Your respective missions are outstanding.

Mr. Archambault, it's always a pleasure to see you. We last saw each other in Lambton at the Fièrement agricole event, which is a wonderful occasion. Your mission is truly important. The origins of your company are also inspiring.

As part of your daily work, you provide food to vulnerable people, support young people and teach young people how to cook.

In your opinion, where do the main shortcomings lie?

As a government, how should we get involved, not to carry out the work of organizations such as yours, but to support them?

[Jean-François Archambault]

Thank you very much for the question.

First of all, we have to start with very simple steps. I spoke of an ambition, an intention to reduce food waste in Canada. I think all my colleagues will agree on that. If this message is put out there and a committee is created, we'll be part of it, and we will be key players.

The other aspect would be to reopen the local food infrastructure fund. I believe Mr. Carney has made a commitment in this regard—namely, to provide funding for the upgrading of community kitchens and local infrastructure, whether it's mobile kitchens or stationary kitchens.

Flexibility is needed in communities. I'm currently touring Canada, and I'm seeing many community organizations where food infrastructure is lacking and where people haven't planned a budget to renovate these kitchens.

I would also call on the government's leadership to engage with the kitchen equipment manufacturing sector. They have to do their part. There's no reason to have to pay full price for kitchen equipment when the community sector can request it, just as a distributor would. Savings of 40% to 50% could be made on costs by implementing a program that engages the manufacturing sector. It wouldn't cost the government a penny, and kitchen equipment could be made available through a fund. This fund could be created with the Government of Canada's help. This would help reduce the costs associated with kitchen renovations, which are extremely high for small organizations that cannot afford them.

With the help of Restaurants Canada, we've begun these discussions, but it's time to take action. I think the government could help us in this regard by providing leverage and, above all, by sending a clear message to kitchen equipment manufacturers. They must also do their part to help communities rebuild local food infrastructure. It often hangs by a thread.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

This is the first time I've heard of this issue regarding kitchen equipment manufacturers.

How exactly would that be implemented?

What is your vision of the support we could provide, among other things, by collaborating with Restaurants Canada?

What is the substance of the discussions?

[Jean-François Archambault]

We are trying to send a message to manufacturers and encourage them to get involved in the infrastructure fund. This would mean that, when an organization receives money from the fund, it also receives a discount that has already been negotiated with a group of manufacturers who are willing to participate.

We're already working with Hobart Canada. Mark Schilling has already agreed to join us on this journey for a number of projects, including the Drop-In Centre in Calgary, to which he provided kitchen equipment at nearly 50% of the cost. He delivered it directly to the organization, which needed to replace two-thirds of its kitchen equipment.

I think we need to talk to domestic manufacturers. There’s an opportunity for them to take a leadership role. I believe they’d be receptive to the idea, and it would lead to many other benefits. I will get involved, as this is one of the projects that is extremely close to my heart.

As for renegotiating the agreements under the national school food program, some provinces already use food literacy as a funding lever to finance initiatives. There are many small initiatives in elementary schools in particular that don't receive much funding.

For example, Quebec has currently focused all its funding solely on food. It has not used federal funding as leverage to support food literacy programs. I think that should be included in the next round of negotiations because a lot of food literacy organizations in Quebec are currently struggling. We're going to lose valuable expertise. I'm sure that's also the case in a number of other Canadian provinces.

These three elements are fairly easy to implement, and they would provide us with invaluable assistance.

[Marianne Dandurand, Liberal, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you.

Can you also tell me about food services during the summer, once the school year is over?

I think you have partnerships with a major grocery chain. Grocers are often criticized for their lack of commitment.

How does that work on your end?

How can we ensure that children can also eat during the summer?

[Jean-François Archambault]

I would say that food banks, like Moisson Montréal, have programs and have mobilized the community. I won't hide the fact that Chantal Rouleau has reached out to us regarding this matter in Quebec.

It's not easy. There is indeed a gap when it comes to food availability during the summer months.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you.

[Jean-François Archambault]

We hold cooking workshops and provide camps. They are indeed funded through partnerships.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

I'm going to have to stop you there. Thank you very much.

Next, we'll go to the Bloc for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Archambault, I would like to follow up on what my colleagues have said to highlight the initiatives of La Tablée des Chefs, particularly the kitchen brigades program.

A number of years ago, in 2019, a former employee, Mishka Caldwell‑Pichette, participated in this program and had the opportunity to be a chef for a day at the restaurant Le Cachottier. It was quite an experience for her. Radio-Canada reported on that.

Does that initiative still exist?

At the time, you were present in six high schools in Abitibi‑Témiscamingue. Has your organization expanded to all regions of Quebec?

[Jean-François Archambault]

We began in 2006 in four of the most disadvantaged schools in Montreal—in Saint‑Henri, Hochelaga‑Maisonneuve and Saint‑Michel. We are now present in 300 of Quebec's public high schools. We are 50% funded by the Quebec department of agriculture, fisheries and food.

We need the same level of support in other Canadian provinces. We have still scaled up the program outside Quebec. We are now present in 75 high schools outside Quebec, [Technical difficulty—Editor] in both official languages. [Technical difficulty—Editor] and last weekend, at the Institut de tourisme et d'hôtellerie du Québec, the finals of the interscholastic culinary competition. Students from Winnipeg's Gordon Bell High School—who were able to come for the weekend thanks to our partnership with Air Canada—won the Canadian national finals of Kitchen Brigades for the second year in a row. It's one of the most disadvantaged schools in Canada. The two teachers who were there asked me if it would be possible for La Tablée des Chefs' food recovery program in Winnipeg to directly benefit parents. We were talking about over 400 parents.

Just imagine all the initiatives my colleagues have mentioned. Think of all the work done by the Salvation Army, Greener Village and all the organizations like that across the country. Despite all this work, despite everything being done by Second Harvest Canada and Canadian food banks, it's not enough. Canadians need to be told the truth. We have to stop burying our heads in the sand. If we don't have enough money, let's find creative solutions. Let's get to the drawing board.

However, the government must be with us when we are at the drawing board. We're not just there to receive a cheque or a grant. We need help, and we need levers to make a difference. This must be done transparently, so that Canadians get the full picture. The situation is worrisome. We are working our fingers to the bone. We all need to work together—the business community and the philanthropic community, which are doing their part, and all levels of government. We all have to work together, as the situation is quite worrisome right now.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You're a great role model when it comes to creativity. Thank you for that.

When we talk about major events, such as the Formula 1 Grand Prix, soccer games and so on, we see that they are often concentrated in large cities.

How can we help the more remote regions, where these major events don't necessarily take place?

In the case of the Huskies-related events, I think more poutines and pizzas are sold than fresh produce.

How can we encourage these events to be held in regions further away from major centres?

[Jean-François Archambault]

Nearly 47% of the food we recover comes from the food service sector, and 40% comes from the health care sector, such as residential and long-term care centres, or CHSLDs, and hospitals. Public food service institutions are implementing food recovery programs. There are such programs in every region of Quebec, all the way to the Côte‑Nord and in every region of Canada.

As I told you, this is just the tip of the iceberg. We are starting to work with the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario, or CHEO, in Ottawa. We're starting to work in the hospital sector in Ontario. Across the entire hospital and public food service sector, there's a lot of work to be done on food recovery to specifically help communities.

I feel privileged to have the opportunity to speak, since your questions are addressed to me, but I would not want to overshadow my colleagues who are also here today.

Thank you very much for your time and your questions. I really appreciate it.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I was just about to address another witness.

My next question is for you, Mr. Boyd.

In one of your studies, you highlight barriers to food donations, namely the lack of tangible financial benefits. Quebec has taken action with agricultural producers by allowing them to claim 150% of the eligible amount of a donation to a Quebec food bank for a tax credit or tax deduction.

Could you tell us whether this measure is having a tangible effect, in your opinion?

Would it be possible or necessary to extend the measure to the federal level?

[Alex Boyd]

Yes, I believe that tax credit has made a deep impact.

Unfortunately, New Brunswick isn't one of the provinces that has that tax credit. We certainly look at Quebec with a bit of envy in that respect, because we believe that would be a good tax credit and would encourage more donations to our agency in New Brunswick.

We also think there is an appetite and a value to having that as a federal tax program as well. If you can connect farmers with a way to move excess product and also see some benefit from that beyond just the social good, that's clearly something that would be helpful for organizations like ours that are trying to increase the volume of fresh food and fresh frozen food that we provide to our client families. If we have better access to that from local producers, and if we can process that in facilities, like our food rescue centre, into frozen product as well, then it really increases the value of the food that we'll be able to provide to people in need.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Is granting a tax credit to producers the right way to go?

Producers are generally doing fairly well in terms of profitability. It's harder to turn a profit in agriculture.

Do you see other ways to benefit producers, as well, and encourage them to be generous by donating their surplus to an organization like yours?

[Alex Boyd]

Yes. Ideally, if there are resources within the network to be able to invest in locally produced agricultural products, as I mentioned in my opening statement, that is probably the number one way to help farmers—to actually be able to purchase product from them directly as opposed to just relying on the credit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Next, we'll do the final round. We'll do four minutes, four minutes and two minutes.

We'll start with Mr. Bragdon for four minutes.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's much appreciated.

Thank you to our guests and the witnesses who are here today, for the important work that they each do in their organizations.

I can say that, from any observation and experience I've had with the Salvation Army and the incredible work that it does across the country and around the world for the most vulnerable among us, that work is to be commended.

First off, let me say, on behalf of a grateful nation, thank you for your incredible work in that space.

As well, I've had the privilege of meeting Mr. Boyd on several occasions in Fredericton. It's great work that they're doing at Greener Village.

These are some wonderful innovations and proposals that you're putting forward or already have in that space, so thank you.

I'll be directing a lot of my questions to both of you and your organizations. I'll start with the Salvation Army.

Your organization works directly with many Canadians who are facing food insecurity head-on. I would like for you to just...and then I'll go to Greener Village as well. Can you tell us what kind of increase in the demand for your services you have seen in the last year—even year over year or even in the last four or five years, but definitely in the last year?

I know the food banks in my area are certainly seeing an increase in demand. I wonder if you could speak to that from your perspective.

[Karen Hoeft]

I've been a Salvation Army officer for 39 years. I served in many places across our country. Food insecurity right now at our food lines is trending to new groups that are coming to see us. It's often people who have been our donors. They are now coming to us for help with food as costs go up for rent, housing and transportation. Of all the different costs, food is the one that gets squeezed out. It can be provided by others or...trying to match how we get into that. The others are pretty stable costs, so you can't change them.

We're seeing that shift all across our country. The donations are not enough to meet the demand. During COVID-19, groups of people who were usually not food insecure showed us that the federal government can play a part in food security across our nation. In the last four years, it never really has.

We're asking for innovative and new ideas that will change the face of our country. Many of the presenters have spoken to some of those. We would love to participate in that to see the people served.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Boyd.

[Alex Boyd]

We've seen a 135% increase in the last five years in the number of people we're serving. That's double and some since we looked at the stats from 2021. During that same time, we have seen a significant increase in certain demographics. For instance, the percentage of people who are accessing our food bank who are full-time employed has more than doubled in the last five years. The number of newcomers has more than doubled in the last five years. The number of students has more than quadrupled in the last five years. We're seeing certain demographics there. We're seeing a lot more people, and that's driving the growth in demand for food banks like ours.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Do you see the increased taxation and regulatory burdens on our farmers and producers, as well as the increased tax burden and rising cost of living, playing a significant role in the increased demand for your services, Mr. Boyd and the Salvation Army?

You can submit it in writing if you don't have time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

He's run out of time. I think he caught on to it at the last second.

Thank you.

We'll go to the Liberals and Mr. Fergus for four minutes.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much to all the witnesses for joining us. Their testimony is greatly appreciated.

In the previous panel, it was mentioned that it is important for the government to implement initiatives.

My question is for the representatives of the three associations.

We discussed with the previous panel the missing link in all of this. A question I asked one of the witnesses privately was about the respective roles of retailers and wholesalers in the agri-food sector.

Mr. Archambault, do you think there would be a benefit to preventing this vertical integration that exists between wholesalers and retailers—that is, grocery stores?

[Jean-François Archambault]

Thank you for the question.

I've had discussions about that. Wholesalers must primarily plan their operations around the possible dates or days when products will go on sale at the retailer. Take fruits and vegetables, for example. It needs to be ensured that these products go on sale within 15 days to guarantee the freshest possible products. In some cases, certain retailers may refuse the product. In that case, the wholesaler is left with an inventory of 15 pallets of broccoli that they cannot send to the retailer. So they'll donate them to food banks, but in some cases, that's not possible.

As for frozen products, I spoke with Nicholas‑P. Pedneault of Congebec, which manages large-scale freezer facilities. In some cases, certain retailers refuse to allow stored products that do not meet standards to be donated to food aid organizations. That should be prohibited. A process absolutely must be put in place to ensure that any edible and accessible food that will not be sold is donated to food aid organizations.

Regarding the freezing sector or the freezing-related outsourcing, Mr. Pedneault and I had a very productive discussion. That said, I'm sure that's also the case for many other refrigeration and freezing facilities across the country.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I don't have much speaking time left, and I'd like to share it with my colleague from Nova Scotia.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you very much to all the witnesses for the work they do in their communities. It's really, profoundly important.

Thank you to my colleague for the time.

I just have one question for Mr. Boyd.

One of the things we often hear about from charitable groups and non-profits, as we heard in the last hour, is the difficulty of taking an operation to the next level in terms of impact and scale.

Mr. Boyd, could you pinpoint the one or two things the federal government could do, either on its own or in partnership with provinces and others, to help organizations like yours scale to address the issue of food insecurity? What are those, in your mind?

[Alex Boyd]

Thank you for that question.

Briefly, if I were to pick one thing, it would be to focus on the right infrastructure that can “benefit beyond”. We build most infrastructure projects for a given need, but once we've built that infrastructure, it could be used for things that weren't the original need. For instance, you could build a road to a new community and then use it for a whole host of different avenues.

We have partnerships with—

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you. I'm going to stop you there, as I have limited time today.

I'm going to the Bloc for two minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Boyd, can you tell us about the challenges posed by the concentration of businesses, grocery stores and distribution centres, particularly initiatives like FoodHero?

To what extent does making affordable food more accessible to people who really need it also have an impact?

[Alex Boyd]

Thank you for that question.

I think it's important for the grocery sector to do that. It's part of their business model to not give away food when they can sell food. That's what they exist for. It can have an impact, obviously, when organizations like Greener Village or others are reliant on that food so they can give it to people. What we need to do is broaden the people we're working with and not be reliant on one particular demographic. Part of that is partnering with producers and wholesalers, so we're not just reliant on the end-user. Everyone is going to be working towards efficiency. We certainly encourage that, because we don't want to have food waste at all.

If we could create the right infrastructure to gather food at every point in the chain, we'd be less susceptible to the risk of discount food being significantly less...than it was in previous times.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Initiatives like FoodHero and Liquidation Marie ensure that food is sold at low cost rather than being sent to organizations and food banks. Naturally, this has an impact on inventory levels.

How can we ensure to help the people who need it most?

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

We need a short answer.

[Alex Boyd]

That's a hard question to give a short answer to.

The reality is that we're going to have to keep looking at alternate sources of food, beyond reclaimed food at the end of its life, in order to get it to people who need it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Michael Coteau]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today, for the very meaningful work they do to help Canadians, and for their time.

We'll now suspend for five minutes in order to go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]